Random questions

kirrbby

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
I usually try not to start a new thread if there is a existing thread that covers the same or similar topics. Sometimes I just wish there was a random question thread, so... here it is. Feel free to post your own random questions here.

First random question is about this frame. Recent ebay purchase. I got the matching, partial motor that is only 2 numbers off also. I didn't know the frame was damaged until it arrived in the mail. I'm thinkin the damage was done by a crash, into a wall or tree etc. The lower fork legs are bent in. The triple tree looks ok. It doesn't look to me like the angle of the headtube has changed as I would have thought it would be if that was the case.
The only other reason I can imagine is if it were full of water and then frozen, maybe over and again.

Does it look repairable? Too costly a repair to be worthwhile? with a close matching motor and no title? It's pretty straight otherwise.

I hate damaged frames, and I have a lot of them.

atapatalk.imageshack.com_v2_15_01_03_445c0db4e02de655dbf6e58fd306371a.jpg
atapatalk.imageshack.com_v2_15_01_03_9b6cb1aa4491a3ad99989441baef6ec3.jpg
atapatalk.imageshack.com_v2_15_01_03_05c4f606a60b3d25606411696e5c281e.jpg
atapatalk.imageshack.com_v2_15_01_03_7e772ae2a3ace130c133a845f9a918a5.jpg
atapatalk.imageshack.com_v2_15_01_03_96d82d5bdc72b1800cecffc83b9b5043.jpg
 
cjpayne

cjpayne

Well-Known Member
That does look like ice swelling to me. If ice swell can split a rock, why not a frame. I've seen this type of splitting/swelling happen in automotive exhaust pipes on old cars.
 
Enginedoctor

Enginedoctor

Well-Known Member
Repairable, sure. Worthwhile, I'm guessing not. Since you have numbers matching stuff, I'd push more towards yes, but then you'd have to get the tube at the front straight, then TIG it to make it look decent. Interesting theory on the ice. I see it being a possibility, but I'm pretty certain it started from an impact, especially if the fork legs are bent too.
 
cjpayne

cjpayne

Well-Known Member
The CYS frame doesn't look all that bad, IMO. I'd use it. A heavy duty exhaust C-clamp may straighten that split on the H frame with some torch heat, then weld as E.D. suggested. The tube doesn't appear offset with the frame, to me.
 
kirrbby

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
The CYS is a good one except for a bad motor mount. Much easier fix. The tube on the H is swollen quite a bit, plus the split. Will need a person with some talent and patience to get it back into shape. I'm not sure it will be worth the price to have it repaired. Even if I can find someone willing to try it, I'm sure there would be no guarantees. Might be better off to count it as a loss, or throw it in with the sale of the motor. Seems a shame to scrap it. Maybe title it.... make it worth saving, and sell it off with the motor or left side case.
I could just sell it off for whatever it brings, but it's a PITA to pack and ship a frame, safely. Not worth the labor for a $20 sale.
 
Last edited:
cjpayne

cjpayne

Well-Known Member
I think it would be a shame to scrap it with the #'s case. Hopefully, someone here would like a real challenge or a chance to sharpen their metal skills.
I have this bizarre idea in my head of me putting it in an exhaust pipe bender or some type of pipe extrusion machine.lol (I don't think it would work.haha)
 
P

power6994

Active Member
wouldn't be too hard to straighten..

bolt a set of crappy forks on nice and tight, use an oxy to heat up the frame and carefully bend it out.

I would get a solid steel rod in a vice and feed it into the hole of the forks from underneath.

that will get it 90% close and then carefully hammer shape the last part and weld it all back together.
 
kirrbby

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
So you think it was from a crash too power6994. That was my first impression. If that is the case then your plan sounds good. I'm always a little scared to use heat, not being too familiar with working with metal. I always think it might mess up the temper of the metal, make it brittle, or warp it, etc.
 
P

power6994

Active Member
yeah for sure.. I a water expansion wouldn't have a sharp bend like that.

plus it's refined to one small area and there looks to be crushing on the underside.

don't worry about affecting the metal, that's why you use heat so you aren't tearing the metal (on a microscopic level) just go slow with the heat and you'll be fine

You can actually use heat and rapid cooling (water or oil) to make steel even stronger (tempering) but this is more for things like steel blades etc where you would use a better type of steel anyways.
 
Dezdan

Dezdan

Well-Known Member
kirrbby said:
I'm always a little scared to use heat, not being too familiar with working with metal. I always think it might mess up the temper of the metal, make it brittle, or warp it, etc.
Click to expand...
A good bike to practice and learn on! Curious, engine anywhere near 20085XX?
 
bc17a

bc17a

Well-Known Member
That's a shame, only 2 numbers away. Funny, I had that frame on my watch list and never noticed that damage until your post. Did the seller ship it with the forks on? I can't imagine he'd miss that if he removed the forks. I'd send him an email and let him know the frame is unusable and see what he will do. He might just refund your money. With 100% positive feedback he looks like a reasonable and honest seller.

Looks like it was damaged by a sudden stop, not ice and if that was the case, the forks would have been wasted so those sold with the frame are definitely not original. No doubt that it can be fixed but it will take both a good metal worker and some filler. Someone capable of fixing it would easily charge a few bills to do it.
 
kirrbby

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
bc17a said:
That's a shame, only 2 numbers away. Funny, I had that frame on my watch list and never noticed that damage until your post. Did the seller ship it with the forks on? I can't imagine he'd miss that if he removed the forks. I'd send him an email and let him know the frame is unusable and see what he will do. He might just refund your money. With 100% positive feedback he looks like a reasonable and honest seller.

Looks like it was damaged by a sudden stop, not ice and if that was the case, the forks would have been wasted so those sold with the frame are definitely not original. No doubt that it can be fixed but it will take both a good metal worker and some filler. Someone capable of fixing it would easily charge a few bills to do it.
Click to expand...

Ya it came the forks and swingarm on it. The lower lags are bent but not the triple. The tear in the metal was just barely visible in one pic. I figure it was my mistake, shoulda caught it. I doubt I will try to repair it. I think it should be done by the person who would own/keep it. I've already taken the frame to storage and that's where damaged frames go to live. I'll probably break the motor down and hang the L side case in the frame for now. If anyone wants them, willing to make the repairs, I'd ship em cheap.

The seller is a good guy. http://www.ebay.com/itm/271684399863?_trksid=p2060778.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
 
Last edited:
As an eBay Associate we earn from qualifying purchases.
red69

red69

Well-Known Member
power6994 said:
yeah for sure.. I a water expansion wouldn't have a sharp bend like that.

plus it's refined to one small area and there looks to be crushing on the underside.

don't worry about affecting the metal, that's why you use heat so you aren't tearing the metal (on a microscopic level) just go slow with the heat and you'll be fine

You can actually use heat and rapid cooling (water or oil) to make steel even stronger (tempering) but this is more for things like steel blades etc where you would use a better type of steel anyways.
Click to expand...

I've worked with piano wire for landing gear on RC airplanes. After assembly using silver solder and a torch, I temper the gear by heating to a blue color and letting it cool to room temperature. Rapid cooling by plunging will make it brittle and could cause it to crack under stress.
 
hrc200x

hrc200x

Active Member
Good thing your holding on to your junk frames, things like steering stops, rear brake peddle and rear brake spring mounts could always be cut off and repurposed on a good frame.
 
6

69ST

Well-Known Member
My first step would be verifying the working dimensions of the frame. Sounds complicated, it isn't - at least the measuring process. You've got lots of frames & swingarms, the best, not to mention cheapest, CT70 measuring jigs ever made. Choose a swingarm and fork, plus axles; those will be used as your base measurement calibration, transferred between frames. Bolt the rear axle into the forward-most position in the slots and leave it there. Next up, measure the wheelbase, at the outsides of the axles. The actual angle difference, at the steering tube, will translate a slight amount of bending into a significant difference in wheelbase due to the multiplying effect of 600mm of fork leg length.

I'd expect only a minuscule difference between the undamaged frames. The (I suspect) crash-damaged frame will be a clear standout. Heating the frame, prior to straightening/stretching is a good idea. The tough part will be devising a method of securely jigging it and applying the force needed, without collateral damage.

Methinks that this one's been crashed as few others have ever been; the bent fork all but screams "bang!!!". And, the frame surgery required will fall under the heading of "heroic/extraordinary repairs".
 
kirrbby

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
racerx said:
My first step would be verifying the working dimensions of the frame. Sounds complicated, it isn't - at least the measuring process. You've got lots of frames & swingarms, the best, not to mention cheapest, CT70 measuring jigs ever made. Choose a swingarm and fork, plus axles; those will be used as your base measurement calibration, transferred between frames. Bolt the rear axle into the forward-most position in the slots and leave it there. Next up, measure the wheelbase, at the outsides of the axles. The actual angle difference, at the steering tube, will translate a slight amount of bending into a significant difference in wheelbase due to the multiplying effect of 600mm of fork leg length.

I'd expect only a minuscule difference between the undamaged frames. The (I suspect) crash-damaged frame will be a clear standout. Heating the frame, prior to straightening/stretching is a good idea. The tough part will be devising a method of securely jigging it and applying the force needed, without collateral damage.

Methinks that this one's been crashed as few others have ever been; the bent fork all but screams "bang!!!". And, the frame surgery required will fall under the heading of "heroic/extraordinary repairs".
Click to expand...

Racerx I'm thinkin this frame, in post #1 would make a very good patch panel donor. Beyond repair but 90% of it is straight. I have worse, but this looks ideal.
 
kirrbby

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
Out for a ride on a beautiful day, I ran the tank down to reserve, then stopped to refill the tank. I usually fill the tank from a gas can at home. Always run premium pump gas. Filling at the gas station, I hit the premium button and then it took $1.09 to fill. My question is that the pump has one hose supplying all 3 grades of fuel. How much 87 octane was in the hose before I started getting premium from the nozzle?
 
cjpayne

cjpayne

Well-Known Member
kirrbby said:
Out for a ride on a beautiful day, I ran the tank down to reserve, then stopped to refill the tank. I usually fill the tank from a gas can at home. Always run premium pump gas. Filling at the gas station, I hit the premium button and then it took $1.09 to fill. My question is that the pump has one hose supplying all 3 grades of fuel. How much 87 octane was in the hose before I started getting premium from the nozzle?
Click to expand...
I have often wondered the same thing. Usually I put some gas in the car, then the can. They say that there's only a small bit of residual, but how much is it really? Good question Kirrbby!
 
Top Bottom