Ethanol Aftermath

cjpayne

Well-Known Member
1.jpg2.jpg3.jpg Found white fuzzies in my idle jet. I had quit putting ethanol in my bike ever since my cylinder head burned up. Guess I should have replaced the fuel lines too.:20:
 
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darrel gunderson

Active Member
I don't like it either. It ate up the rubber fuel line on my 04 KTM... Luckily since I moved here to MO. I have found 3 places that I can get 87, 91 and 93 octane with no ethanol.
 

69ST

Well-Known Member
I don't feed my motorcycles corn. They just don't like it.
Not to be a smart ass but..." you wanna bet?"

Do a little research and you will be shocked at how rare real gasoline has become. Ethanol is all but unavoidable, unless you don't mind carrying your own supply and being on a very short tether. Nationally, ethanol-free pump gas is available from a small fraction of 1% of stations. And it's causing big problems for millions, from vintage car/bike/boat enthusiasts to tree service companies. "The gas war is over...gas won.":102:
 

stanyon

Member
Let me know when you find an alternative, My Weed Eater needed new fuel lines, I also replaced fuel lines in three of my neighbors yard tools.
Total up the cost of the repair at a shop along with the subsidized ethonal industry from your tax dollars, and the fact that it takes more of this foul brew to achieve the same result. Milage on a car is a good comparison. MORE BIG OUT OF CONTROL GOVERNMENT.
 

Adam-NLV

Well-Known Member
Boy first they eliminate the Lead, which these old engines like/need and now they're squeezing in the Ethanol whether you want it or not.

I would think (and hope) the manufacturers of todays Aftermarket parts (heads & valves) are taking these facts into consideration.:juggle:
 

b52bombardier1

Well-Known Member
The alternative is AvGas for recip engine airplanes. I pay about $6.50 a gallon for it at a local specialty / exotic / racing fuel distributor. The lead is a minor side benefit but its the lack of "alkyhol" that really does it for me. This also allows the fuel to be stored for many months without going stale.

Another opportunity might be the local blender of that canned two cycle no ethanol fuel. Their base stock has no ethanol and they only add the two smoke oil to it. Maybe they will you a few gallons.

Rick
 
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ez50

Well-Known Member
I live in central IA. You know the "Tall corn state". I get my fuel at the local coop self serve station with an option of 87 no ethanol and 90 10% ethanol. The farmers know you dont put alcohol in small engines. Newer cars only.
 

boz

Member
I can still get 87 octane EtOH free fuel. If that weren't possible, I think I would try to extract the ethanol. The process wouldn't be that hard with a bit of investment into some simple lab equipment. I have a degree in Chemistry, so I don't feel at all uncomfortable with doing this at home except for the fact that I don't have a flame/fume hood. Therefore do this outside with appropriate spark/flame precautions.

Obtain a PTFE (Teflon) stopcock Separatory Funnel. At least 250ml. I would prefer a 500ml or larger one. Also a standard plastic or glass funnel.
Make sure to have clean equipment and an extremely well ventilated and spark/flame safe work space.
Close the stopcock on the Separatory Funnel.
Using a clean funnel, fill the separtory funnel about one-forth full with distilled water.
Now add your ethanol-adulterated gasoline to about 1/2 full.
Close the stopper and agitate (shake) the mixture gently several times. You may need to "burp" the funnel as vapors collect.
As you mix the water and gas, the EtOH that is in solution will preferably migrate into the water.
Agitate and release the gas 2 or 3 more times.
Now allow the Separatory Funnel to stand without moving it for a few minutes. The fuel and water will separate.
Extract off the water layer on the bottom of the funnel. The line between the phases is quite clear. Drain off the water until you see the fuel down through the petcock.
Put the water phase you drained off into in a labeled container and dispose of it properly. (Don't drink it! Its not safe to drink).
Now pour off your EtOH-free fuel into a beaker or flask and add about a gram of anhydrous magnesium sulfate powder. Swirl it around for 30 seconds or so. This will remove any water remaining in solution.
Now take some filter paper (coffee filter works fine) and line a clean funnel with it. Filter the fuel through the filter paper into an appropriate storage container.
You now have ethanol-free fuel.

I would recommend starting with the highest Octane fuel you can find, as ethanol bumps up the octane rating a bit in small amounts. Your resulting fuel could be as low as 85 octane if you start with 87.

This process is not too bad if you are making fuel for lawn mowers or motorcycles as the fuel requirements are quite small. I wouldn't even think of extracting ethanol for a car this way. If you have a 2000ml funnel, you could probably turn out 5 gallons in an afternoon.

Don't blow our burn yourself up.
 

69ST

Well-Known Member
Let me know when you find an alternative, My Weed Eater needed new fuel lines, I also replaced fuel lines in three of my neighbors yard tools.
Total up the cost of the repair at a shop along with the subsidized ethonal industry from your tax dollars, and the fact that it takes more of this foul brew to achieve the same result. Milage on a car is a good comparison. MORE BIG OUT OF CONTROL GOVERNMENT.
You left out the word "CORPORATE" and the term "CASH & CARRY".

I feel your pain, having very recently been "volunforced" to buy a new chainsaw...for want of an NLA carb diaphragm, rotted by ethanol. And, I'm replacing the Tygon fuel lines on my bikes every other year, for the same reason. Worse yet, every once in a while I get stuck with a fresh fill-up that contains more goat piss than the engine can burn. (And I'm not alone in this.) A big "half-peace-sign" salute to the oil conglomerates, who own a good portion of our government...and country. :fuck:

Adam-NLV said:
Boy first they eliminate the Lead, which these old engines like/need and now they're squeezing in the Ethanol whether you want it or not.

I would think (and hope) the manufacturers of todays Aftermarket parts (heads & valves) are taking these facts into consideration.

It's mainly high-compression car engines from the 1960's that are affected by lack of TEL. Beginning with 1971, car engines have been required to to be compatible with low-lead fuel, no-lead by the `75 model year. Anyone manufacturing & selling anything but true "racing use only" heads, would be pointing a gun at his own head and daring anyone to force him to pull the trigger. :30: As I recall, the owner's manual for my erstwhile CB350 stated that low-lead was okay..better than 40 years ago, still in the pre-catalyst era.

I've followed Rick's approach, sort of, since the late `80s...keeping a drum of C16 in the shop. The landscape and tree service outfits around here all fill their gas cans at local marinas...for $7/gallon. Most of the musclecar owners I know use "Turbo blue", race fuel.

That said, IMHO, there are basically two solutions: fight or adapt. Sourcing ethanol-free gasoline is a soft fight, race gas is a tough proposition all the way around. Best case, you pay roughly double and go on your merry way. For me, $.07 per mile in fuel costs...on a bike this small...is a bit much. Beyond that, if you ride the kind of distances I do, it's too short of a leash; where's the next tank coming from? Race gas, like "Turbo blue" is even worse than E10 pump gas, in terms of both storage life and what it does to rubber parts. Lead, if not absolutely needed to protect valve seats, is actually bad for the rest of the engine.

As far as our cars, we're basically screwed. At best, you get a flex-fuel vehicle and live with less mpg. That said, ethanol is actually a clean-burning, high-octane, fuel with some good properties. E85 is being used as cheap race gas, since it'll support high CRs. If I were rebuilding a vintage engine, I'd have hardened valve seat inserts added...do it once and move on.

With these little bikes, mileage doesn't seem to be affected very much. In fact, I've actually seen my daily rider's mpg numbers go from the low-to-mid 90s to right around the 100mpg mark, +/-4mpg. Peak numbers have gone from 102 to 128(!). I'm guessing this is because I jetted the carb to the rich limit with straight gasoline; thus, E10 is moving it closer to optimal. Setting up the carb any other way would risk burnt parts. My point is that any negative effects should have manifested long ago. As it stands, 19,000 miles is two tanks away and neither the engine, not carburetor, show the slightest signs of distress. That's not some kind boast...I'm volunteering to serve as field tester/R&D/lab rat.

Having said all of the above, consider the realities of the situation. (I'm only talking about the bike, nothing else, here) I've had to rejet the carb once, change jet needle height once, tweak the idle and replace the fuel lines twice...so far. If you remember my post about the petcock packing shrinking once the fuel system was drained & dry (after exposure to E10), as it turns out, coating the packing with bearing grease has actually kept this rubber part viable. It's swelled back to full size with one tank of "gas". for the past 4 years now. The last carb adjustment was at the start of the 2010 season. Now, compare that (draining the entire fuel system dry, which I do for indoor storage anyway, and greasing the petcock packing...once annually) to continually sourcing, carrying, & storing any kind of specialty fuel. What, truly, are the choices and which are more hassle and money?

All apologies for yet another thesis & dissertation. However, I think it better to at least consider more than one angle...and then decide for yourself which solution(s) makes the most sense. Any of them can work.
 

cjpayne

Well-Known Member
I seem to recall that OLDCT said that there is some ethanol neutralizer at the local walmart. I asked my local parts guy to find some ethanol proof gas lines. He said all he could get is ethanol "resistant". I installed it just in case/when my pure source runs out. One of the local pump stations here quit selling 91 & 89, then started selling 87 ethanol and pure. The 91 pure I get is about 20miles from here. At least I'm still finding the 91. How long? Who knows. I have been stocking up, then cycling through the gas cans.
1.jpg
 
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OLD CT

Well-Known Member
I would buy four or five feet of that fuel line,for stock.Startron in the Walmart marine section.The first pic C.J. actually looked like a spider worked their way into the line and built a nest like they do in a cars return line.:spider:
 
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cjpayne

Well-Known Member
...looked like a spider worked their way into the line and built a nest like they do in a cars return line.:spider:
LOL. I know about what your talking about. They leave those things in the damndest places. Found one in a speedo bulb socket the last time. Could probably start a thread on the bizarre places those "eggsacks" show up.
 

OLD CT

Well-Known Member
All grades of gas have ethanol by me.87 89 93.Cam2 gt unleaded is 9.99 a gallon,luckily i only need it for the minibikes.On average,a gallon or 2 lasts about a month worth of use.
 

miiiiiz

Member
I've been using Startron for a while now, not sure if it works, but it's one of those things that you hate to stop just in case...

If anyone is interested, here's a link to the AMA's legislation section concerning ethanol in gas. Current legislation in the works will make it illegal for motorcyclists to put E-15 in their bikes. As far as I know, you don't necessarily have to be a member of the AMA to use this section of their site, and support the fight against this issue. Click on it if you would like to send a prewritten e-mail to your legislator or sign an electronic petition.

Issues & Legislation
 

Mark A

Member
Boz know's what he's talking about. But all you have to do to get the Ethanol out is put about maybe 20% water in a clear plastic drinking water bottle add gas, shake let sit and see it separate into 3 layers. Shake again let sit 2 layers. Then pour gasoline (the top layer), no ethanol no special dodads. Done it.
Mark
 

cjpayne

Well-Known Member
Boz know's what he's talking about. But all you have to do to get the Ethanol out is put about maybe 20% water in a clear plastic drinking water bottle add gas, shake let sit and see it separate into 3 layers. Shake again let sit 2 layers. Then pour gasoline (the top layer), no ethanol no special dodads. Done it.
Mark
Excellent tip. Don't know if it would matter, but do you use tap water or purified water?
 
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