Piranha 140 to mytrailbuddy harness

‘71beast

Member
i have a piranha 140 motor that has 5 wires two yellow (one to lights and one to ground) I know that. What are the others I know the black/red is kill switch. But there is a green and a blue/white. The only place on the harness they can go to is a plug with a red for Cdi, white for voltage regulator, and a green for ground. What do I do?
 

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69ST

Well-Known Member
You really need wiring schematics for the engine, harness (if it's aftermarket) and the specific model/year of the bike (if you're using the original keyswitch) if you hope to get through the wiring mods the easiest way. Otherwise, you have to trace each each lead from the engine, harness & keyswitch. BTW, there's absolutely no way to do this with a schematic to decipher the keyswitch functions & associated leads...unless your knowledge base is...shall we say, encyclopedic. Mine isn't, fortunately, Honda schematics are easy to find, which takes care of the keyswitch decoding.

Okay...now that I've hit you with the horror-story side of this task, time to break out the sunlight, wooden stakes and garlic.:ROFLMAO:

You've basically got two circuits: ignition and charging/lighting, plus a neutral light lead. Thus, it's easiest to break things down, start with the known leads, then work out the unknowns via circuit tracing & process of elimination. So...

Start with the neutral lead. It should be green w/red trace and originating at the switch, at the flywheel side end of the shift drum assembly, near the countershaft.

Next up, the charging/lighting leads. There should be two AC outputs. One goes to the reg/rec input, the other to the fourth reg/rec post...and the HL circuit feed, on the keyswitch. The other two reg/rec leads are outputs to the battery(+) and (-). The problem you have here is that we don't yet know the color coding of the stator pigtail. With OEM Honda it's white & yellow. White AC feed to the charging side of the reg/rec, yellow AC feed "T'd" to the reg/rec & HL switch feed. System ground is via the chassis.

On the ignition side there should be: primary coil output, CDI trigger, CDI power, ground, switched ground. If your CDI module connects directly to the engine pigtail, then there should only be a ground lead, switched ground lead (kill switch) and primary ignition output. The ground goes the chassis, only a question of how that is routed, with this harness. Switched ground goes to the IE lead on the keyswitch and the primary output lead goes to the HT coil. Here's where the operative becomes "IF" as in "if you have wiring schematics", to ID the color-coding of everything, as well as what each post on the CDI module does, by position. With that last one, you've got no choice; electronics have no sympathy, let alone a sense of humor. If nothing else, the vendor from whom you sourced the engine should be able & happy to share schematic info with you. From that point, it'll be a matter of using the schematic to decode the wire harness...again, I'm sure the vendor will provide that info. Otherwise, the only alternative is tracing each harness lead, end-to-end, which can be done. With an aftermarket engine & wiring, I'm not gonna even make any edumacated guesses, too risky.

Bottom line, the electrical systems of these bikes are really quite simple. Being a first-timer, that statement come across a little shaky; viewing all of those parts and what looks like technicolor spaghetti, it's difficult NOT feeling a little overwhelmed, at least. That said, it boils down to ID-ing one lead at a time. If you begin with the known leads, you'll narrow-down the choices and minimize any detective work...process of elimination will do the rest. What you'll probably find out is that the lion's share of your man-hours will be spent on "busy work" (cutting, splicing, re-routing, soldering, taping, etc) than coming up with "final Jeopardy" answers.
 

‘71beast

Member
Well the whole wiring of the bike is aftermarket key switch and all. And this is what I have on the piranha. Not really sure what it all means and don’t really want to disassemble the engine anymore than barely.
 

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69ST

Well-Known Member
That looks workable, to me. So,assuming that you chosen the correct schematic and everything was provided as a plug & play system, there's not that much to verify...of is there? Keep in mind, I'm trying to sort your wiring sight-unseen, from behind a keyboard(!).

Let's start with a few of the obvious (to me), main, leads. See the yellow, the one that goes to the reg/rec & HL feed (ID'd as "electrical accessories")? According to this schematic, it can go to either corner of the reg/rec. The same goes for the other yellow lead. Red goes from the reg/rec to battery (+), the green goes to both battery (-) and the chassis. Get the lighting/charging side sorted, then we can begin doing the same with the ignition...if you are unable to do so yourself. IMHO, while the schematic is a little basic/crude, that's probably a good thing in that it may prevent some confusion. It identifies the engine leads by color and the two modules by post position, good stuff. IOW, it's pretty clear to me.
 

dirtbkr188

Active Member
The wiring from the engine is as follows:
black/red tracer - source coil on the stator
blue/white tracer - pulse pickup
green - engine ground
yellow(s) -lighting coil on the stator
 

‘71beast

Member
The wiring from the engine is as follows:
black/red tracer - source coil on the stator
blue/white tracer - pulse pickup
green - engine ground
yellow(s) -lighting coil on the stator

This helps so the source coil goes to where? And the pulse pick up goes to where?

I’m gonna have to cut the trail buddy harness and connect them separately
 

69ST

Well-Known Member
This helps so the source coil goes to where? And the pulse pick up goes to where?

I’m gonna have to cut the trail buddy harness and connect them separately

That's not at all surprising. It's not possible to make a universal wire harness that will be "plug & play" with every bike/engine combo. I've adapted OEM Honda wiring & engines from other, newer, model bikes and those have all required some reconfiguration, depending upon how the bike is setup, how the alternator is configured, if turn signals are used and any other accessories. The actual circuitry is straightforward, if sometimes a little confusing (those wire harnesses have twice as many leads)...translating from paper to reality. That said, the lion's share of the work is spent cutting, splicing & soldering...shortening leads that are too long, extending those that are too short, adding/changing connectors, etc. The point is it's nowhere near as complex as it looks and it's nowhere near plug & play...even with all-OEM pieces.

Seriously, seems like the answers to your questions are shown on the schematic you posted. The source of your anxiety is not understanding how to translate that into the wiring & componentry in front of you. Please let's be clear, I'm not being sarcastic or in any way insulting. I'm trying to figure out a way to explain this that will place us both on the same page. Electrical systems are not the most intuitive things to learn.

Take a look at the bottom of the schematic. Lower left is the CDI pin arrangement, lower right shows the reg/rec...which color lead goes to which pin inside its respective modular connector. IDK if this is at all helpful but, can't think of any other way to approach it, with the info posted, so far. Perhaps you could post some clear detail shots. That'd give us a little more to work with...maybe even that "aha moment".
 

‘71beast

Member
That's not at all surprising. It's not possible to make a universal wire harness that will be "plug & play" with every bike/engine combo. I've adapted OEM Honda wiring & engines from other, newer, model bikes and those have all required some reconfiguration, depending upon how the bike is setup, how the alternator is configured, if turn signals are used and any other accessories. The actual circuitry is straightforward, if sometimes a little confusing (those wire harnesses have twice as many leads)...translating from paper to reality. That said, the lion's share of the work is spent cutting, splicing & soldering...shortening leads that are too long, extending those that are too short, adding/changing connectors, etc. The point is it's nowhere near as complex as it looks and it's nowhere near plug & play...even with all-OEM pieces.

Seriously, seems like the answers to your questions are shown on the schematic you posted. The source of your anxiety is not understanding how to translate that into the wiring & componentry in front of you. Please let's be clear, I'm not being sarcastic or in any way insulting. I'm trying to figure out a way to explain this that will place us both on the same page. Electrical systems are not the most intuitive things to learn.

Take a look at the bottom of the schematic. Lower left is the CDI pin arrangement, lower right shows the reg/rec...which color lead goes to which pin inside its respective modular connector. IDK if this is at all helpful but, can't think of any other way to approach it, with the info posted, so far. Perhaps you could post some clear detail shots. That'd give us a little more to work with...maybe even that "aha moment".

Actually that is exactly what I was thinking after your last message explaining where the yellow wires go. See which colors on the harness Lin up with the rec and then match the corresponding colors to the proper engine wires so at 11 when I get offf work I’ll hve to take another look.
 

69ST

Well-Known Member
Actually that is exactly what I was thinking after your last message explaining where the yellow wires go. See which colors on the harness line up with the rec and then match the corresponding colors to the proper engine wires so at 11 when I get off work I’ll have to take another look.

With the reg/rec unit, you only need to ID where the red & green leads go and you've sorted the charging circuit wiring, EZ.

With the ignition & related leads in the harness (along with the keyswitch) there are two ways to verify harness leads...as well as functions. One is with a multimeter, set to "continuity" (a simple continuity tester can be improvised using a battery, a bulb and a couple of scraps of wire but, most guys own a multimeter...or will find it easier to buy at HF), the other is tracing each lead...which mean unwrapping the harness. When doing any kind of custom wiring, I use a continuity tester to verify keyswitch operation. I also unwrap the wire harness...to look for possible cross-connections, non-soldered splices and "surprises" in color-coding. It just helps avoid disappointment at the 11th hour, when you're really ready to test out your newly-equipped boiler room.

Three points to consider:
Splices should be soldered, then either shrink-wrapped, if possible, or taped. The keyswitch does only one thing...open & close circuits; this is where the continuity tester is your ace-in-the-hole/"cheat sheet". Lastly, for now, this stuff can get a little wearisome so take your time and take a break, if you're fatigued. Mo`better to take an extra day, or two, than to have to go back through everything from scratch...after you've carefully buttoned-up everything. It's only too easy to make a simple mistake, especially when worn out from a full day of breaking rocks...and that's all it takes to derail a lot of otherwise careful, meticulous, work.

If you're stuck, or just unsure about something...you know where to post questions.;)
 

‘71beast

Member
I kid you not after figuring all the wiring out after hours of frustration. Mytrailbuddy sells a sub harness to plug right into the YX140cc motors.

I did find out through all this though that the piranha 140 is half wave. So I needed a new rectifier, also the stock rear rear pedal doesn’t work on the 140cc motors.

So all said and done this bike should be done by Friday I can’t wait my first trail70!!
 

69ST

Well-Known Member
AFAIK, all of these engines...including OEM Honda/Honda-based...have grounded (half-wave) alternators. Only way to get a full wave setup is to have one made, or wind you own.

Might work out better for you, in the long haul, to consider that frustrating couple of days as a blessing in disguise...cheap tuition. You now have a better understanding of the electrical system and someday that could work in your favor. There's not a lot of easily accessible wiring expertise out there. Being your own expert has its advantages.

Any of the larger engines 110cc+, not based on a 49cc Honda lower end, will need a wider footrest assembly and a reconfigured brake pedal. Oftentimes, a little blue wrench session will be enough to make an existing brake pedal fit. Most times, it'll fit but come up short...in which case cutting/sectioning/welding to the proper length will be needed.

Next up, check your muffler hanger, it'll probably be too far forward, due to this engines taller cylinder. Again, it's easy enough to fab an extender bracket, or cut & reposition the rear hanger. Lastly, there's the engine guard. If you're running an aftermarket exhaust, be advised that most don't play well with the engine guard.
 
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