Adding a LED to an aftermarket large housing.

allenp42

Well-Known Member
Late to the party. I don't multi task as well as in times past. Never looked at a clone wiring diagram before but this one looks interesting and odd. Looks like the HL & TL both run off of AC and all other lamps run off of DC/battery? Do you know if the "Rectifier Assembly is just a rectifier or a rectifier & regulator?

Going out on a limb here, but if the diagram is correct, then the battery is acting as a voltage regulator for the HL & TL as well...kinda/sorta. It's getting a ground connection thru one of the diodes in the bridge (if it's just a bridge). I may be way out the weeds here so don't take my comments as the absolute truth. To many "ifs" to know for sure. If you really want to know for sure, you'll need to disconnect the plug from the stator and check Y & W wires to see if there is a ground connection. You may be able to check the "Rectifier Assy" with an ohmmeter as well and determine what It is. Maybe post a pic of this widget?

Regardless, the lighting coil is providing enough juice for the lamps, charging and the HL & TL so I don't know of any reason why you would have a problem running an LED HL from the battery. If anything, an LED HL will reduce the load on the stator quite a bit.
 

69ST

Well-Known Member
That last line is correct...and what matters.

Based on previous comments, I don't see how that schematic could be completely correct...or how the system could work, if it were.

Believe me, I own a modded 6-pole stator that utilizes a floating ground. Without a full wave, diode bridge, rectifier to provide the system ground, there'd be zero output because it would be an open circuit. And, without a robust & responsive voltage regulator dumping excess voltage to ground, system voltage would spike beyond 30V just taking off from a dead stop...at speed 50V would be seen. Now, all of that having been said, one lead could be run to ground and that would allow use of a simple diode (half wave configuration) it'd probably still deliver ~35W but, that would require a BMF diode, make a lot of waste heat, and voltage regulation would crude.
 

Deoodles

Well-Known Member
im thinking about this. A buck regulator converts ac to dc. I may incorporate that into the ac to the headlight. Yes the ac did do HL and TL. I moved the tl to dc last year. The rest of the last 2 posts are over my head. The schematic is right out of the manual for a skyteam 125. That is the harness I’m using. The regulator is nothing special. A 4 pin regulator rectifier
83502C09-D7C8-4E13-8B3D-C4DD34D89BCB.jpeg
 
Last edited:

allenp42

Well-Known Member
Went back and re-read the postings. Are you sure you have a 6 pole stator and the flywheel has 6 magnets?

If you in fact have a Rec/Reg like the one posted....., I played around with one of those last winter, but is typically paried with a single coil much like what is used on a typical Z50/CT70. I even removed the epoxy to see what was inside. Going totally from memory here, which is risky, but that Rec/Reg did not have a lot Rec/Reg capacity, and it did exactly what it shows on DRATV website.

Will see if I kept my notes, but I remember digging deep enough that I understood how that little sucker worked. But that was last winter and we all know memory is 1 of 3 things that goes as you get older. Chemistry and glasses helps with 2 of them.:)

https://sep.yimg.com/ay/dratv/some-wiring-help-i-think-3.gif
 

Deoodles

Well-Known Member
A4A93CD0-A445-47B2-ABF9-71EFB78ACB2B.jpeg I’m sure I have the posted stator. I purchased it from Beatrice. I also have that wiring harness. I’ve used that schematic for several years without issue. This is my actual regulator. 4 wire. I’ve typically gotten 2 years on a battery with no maintenance. 90% of my riding is after dark with high beam on. I’ve never suspected a problem but signals have always made other lights dim when in use. Feeding the LED HL off the battery and taking power from the yellow at the regulator has eliminated power drain throughout the bike. With 13.1v at the batt at 4K I suspect I’m going to be okay. Not sure what your thinking Allen but intrigued. I’m going to do some night riding and see what happens.
 

69ST

Well-Known Member
The only six-pole stator I can recall seeing is Honda Nice/Wave...two 3-coil arrays, both run to ground. Every other radial array stator has been 5-pole, grounded. That said, I've heard recent rumors of non-grounded (floating ground) alternators on at one of the bigger Chinese engines. I say rumors because, without proof, it doesn't exist AFAIC; it's too much of an anomaly to go on hearsay, you know? About 10 years ago, we heard about full wave reg/rec units that would work with grounded stator alternators...and never saw one. If something seems too good to be true...

Feeding the LED HL off the battery and taking power from the yellow at the regulator has eliminated power drain throughout the bike. With 13.1v at the batt at 4K I suspect I’m going to be okay. Not sure what your thinking Allen but intrigued. I’m going to do some night riding and see what happens.
That's what Pat was talking about, slapping-on a voltmeter and going for ride. BTW, that's 100% legit...it's load testing, in-situ...just as valid as using top speed to estimate hp (seat-of-the-pants dyno). If voltage never drops below 13V @ 4000rpm, you should be fine, at the very least. These engines don't spend much time below 4000rpm, while riding.

im thinking about this. A buck regulator converts ac to dc. I may incorporate that into the ac to the headlight. Yes the ac did do HL and TL. I moved the tl to dc last year. The rest of the last 2 posts are over my head. The schematic is right out of the manual for a skyteam 125. That is the harness I’m using. The regulator is nothing special. A 4 pin regulator rectifier
View attachment 64057
This is a garden-variety, half-wave reg/rec unit. Two inputs, yellow which it T-d + white...two outputs DC+ to battery & system ground (-). Honestly, I've no idea how AC voltage is regulated to the yellow HL circuit; whatever the method, it's going to be basic/crude-but-effective. On the charging (DC) side, there's likely ~1.5a current which isn't much more than what a typical trickle charger puts out...and very easy to control.
 

allenp42

Well-Known Member
I did not test the 12v version from Dratv. I tested the 6V version.

However, I did play around with a garden variety 12v version but don't think it limited the HL voltage. But I remember it being limited to about 1.5 - 2 amps of charging & load current. Bob's assumption is correct.

This is a garden-variety, half-wave reg/rec unit. Two inputs, yellow which it T-d + white...two outputs DC+ to battery & system ground (-). Honestly, I've no idea how AC voltage is regulated to the yellow HL circuit; whatever the method, it's going to be basic/crude-but-effective. On the charging (DC) side, there's likely ~1.5a current which isn't much more than what a typical trickle charger puts out...and very easy to control.

I have the electronic schematic of what is suppose to be the guts inside of the Dratv unit. Rather than go on memory, will take another look and see if I can explain it.

I’m running led taillight and speedometer currently. The only incandescent are my signals right now

Back to what Pat recommended, put a meter on the battery and rev it up, with lights on, then turn the blinkers on. I would not expect to see the voltage drop to much less than about 12.5v....if at all when measuring right at the battery. Just as information, the load of 2 turn signal bulbs is about 20 watts and is quite a bit in relative terms. Right now, assuming all other bulbs are LED, it probably consumes more power, intermittently of course, than all other bulbs combined. The question is, what is causing your other lights to blink? It could be a number of things but lets see what is happening right at the battery before going down other roads.

Led running/signal bulbs may be the cure. BUT.... what happens to the system with yellow wire at headlight disconnected. I don’t want to cause damage

Nothing to worry about here since you have a Rec/Reg for the battery. I know this is getting out there, but if your stator is in fact ungrounded (must check with the plug disconnected), you can use a cheap run of the mill Rec/Reg that has way more capability that what you have. I have a cheapie that Fatcat recommended that works just fine. Or step up with a few more pesos and you can a Trail Tech version that Bob uses (better Quality for sure).
 

Deoodles

Well-Known Member
Make some recommendations. If I can increase charging I’m all in. I’m going to put this before the signals on the yellow feed and see what happens. I ordered the 60w 5amp version
5D5F1A22-4CC9-42E0-885A-613EC30B750F.jpeg
 

allenp42

Well-Known Member
Considering all other bulbs are LED, the easiest solution is to go with LED turn signal lamps. I can all but guarantee this will eliminate your other lamps from dimming when the TS light come on. You will, however, have to change the turn signal flasher to an electronic type. Pretty sure I still have one that works from 6-15 volts, and works quite well with LED bulbs. It should plug right in the connector you have. If I have it, will gladly send it your way and let you try it out.

With everything LED, you have reduced the lighting load as much as can be done. All remaining capacity will end up as capacity to keep the battery charged.

I’m going to put this before the signals on the yellow feed

That should work as well. I'm just trying to keep it simple. The flasher I am using is even less expensive than the small power supply you have on order.
 

69ST

Well-Known Member
If you have a floating ground alternator, then the TrailTech 150W fullwave reg/rec unit is a lot of value for $50...well-constructed and adjustable voltage output. Once the set voltage level is reached, any additional output is dumped to ground, no overcharging worries. Circa 2019, $50 is maybe a tank of gas for your grocery-getter. The make/break aspect, it will only work with a floating ground. That's a deal-breaker for the overwhelming majority...for now.

At this late date, other than on a purist-restoration, I won't use anything but a load-independent, electronic, flasher relay. That's an easy way to get consistent, stone-reliable, flash rate regardless of the bulbs or LEDs chosen. The vintage original bimetal-strip operated relays were dodgy 45 years ago....waay too finicky & temperamental.
 

Deoodles

Well-Known Member
I really dislike eating crow. But I will. That is not my stator. I wanted to bring this to the next level so I did what most avoid and took it apart. Pics shortly
 

Deoodles

Well-Known Member
Last night I went out. Low beam on my led HL is better than high beam with an incandescent bulb. Battery fed it was bright at idle and didn’t get brighter at rpm. On high beam it had a flicker and brightness varied for no reason. A steady 5k rpm and it varied in brightness and flickered. I didn’t expect that so I decided to ask for advice here. That meant doing things I probably wouldn’t want to like verifying my stator and having access to the stator plug un plugged. Today I did the necessary required work. Please ask any questions. The wiring to the regulator may be wrong for all I know. The bike runs with the reg unplugged. I have a charge rate of 12.5 v at the Battery. I want battery fed led and no flicker. My schematic is correct. I did move the TL to dc from the battery. I installed 2 molex connectors in the HL bucket so I can plug the HL source from ac to dc quickly. The bulb is 18w

E86C7B8A-2000-4C69-BAE1-B1C46A8DF098.png FE2C292B-7D52-4D1D-B965-52DBD0B190DF.png 8677795A-18E3-4B1B-91D1-779C2892A207.jpeg 550CB99F-8DDA-44C8-8060-5D705C69F224.jpeg 2AD5CDB0-D0E8-472B-BF97-42C909D16216.jpeg A2D8C4C7-57CE-4D3A-B80C-3F300C506015.jpeg
 
Last edited:

69ST

Well-Known Member
One thought comes to mind...placing a diode in the headlight power feed.

In a (primarily) DC circuit, there should be virtually no power loss. This should make more sense if you think of a diode as a check valve. FYI, if you didn't already know...an easy way to test an original selenium diode rectifier is with a battery & bulb. Run a test lead from the battery to the bulb...use the diode as the other test lead. If the bulb illuminates, reverse the diode leads...it should not illuminate, unless the diode has failed.

BTW, I believe your description of the light output. I'm running an 16w/24w LED headlight, with the larger 5.75"/6" reflector. I'd peg usable illumination, compared to everyday passenger vehicles at like 75th-80th percentile...good for ~600 feet of forward visibility.
 

Adam-NLV

Well-Known Member
One thought comes to mind...placing a diode in the headlight power feed.
That's what i was gonna suggest right at the beginning. A diode in series will cut off half of the waveform ... but i really doubt it would be noticable, it may flicker a t low Rpm perhaps. Just make sure it's big enough to handle the wattage.
 

Deoodles

Well-Known Member
So. It’s a 3a diode not a cap. Got that wrong. I don’t have a big enough cap. I get the cap thing though. I’m planning on ordering a cap. Is 3000uf enough or do I need 12000 or 24000uf. For me it would be throwing parts at it. Anyone know?
 
Top