Overall, I have to agree with trailryd3r. That also supports what I said previously...it's apples & oranges. Rather than digging into details, I tried to point out that there are different market segments. Where lines are crossed and blurred, needless conflict arises. You seem to be intent upon escalating things with vague, specious, statements. Your marketing is clear to anyone who knows what's out there, no problem. Since 1970, I have gained at least as much experience at the design/production level; there's just a
little automotive talent on this side of the state, too. Additionally, I still deal with both the automotive and bike sides of things, globally; even have contacts in PRC and an all-too-good understanding of the intricacies involved. Can of worms? More like nest of snakes.
If you've followed along, then no doubt you've noticed the question of how high quality finished parts/assemblies can be retailed for less than the cost of high quality aluminum alloy - which is sold as a commodity, i.e. global pricing. Or, how an engine can wholesale for less than a set of engine bearings and clutch discs? We both know the answers to those questions. Playing devil's advocate, for a brief moment, and assuming that you've somehow, miraculously, been able to transcend the laws of global commodities trading - why so vague & completely lacking in details? I am perplexed and have a few questions.
When I say the quality is "perfect" that is exactly what I mean!
Really, what quality level did you spec? I have involvement with PRC manufacturers and never has the term "perfect quality" been used. Please explain...
The rear hub issue was a problem with clone bikes ever since they were made it failed on my 2 proto-types as well. We identified a problem and eliminated it through a redesign and tested the fix in the trails under extreme conditions before adding it to our bikes and releasing them to the public.
The hub issue arose across the pond, a year earlier than here. I did post warnings about this at the outset and took some flak for it. Ah...isn't hindsight brutally 20/20? As you alluded, new PRC stuff usually gets rolled out in other countries before hitting our shores. If I got the details wrong, please enlighten the audience with the actual details of the problem and the fix.
Have you ever personally seen one of our bikes up close?? I don't think it is possible because we just brought the first 30 into the country in late August and we are the only importer of this bike in North America and Canada. There are other manufacturers but they are not at all close to the quality of this bike.
In an earlier post you said you "...shipped them to Canada all the time..." How can that be with the first 30 just arriving? Could this be an example of lines being crossed & blurred? Please fill me in, you've throughly confused me with this one.
We are launching the "Ultimate Trailbuddy" for 09 without giving too much detail I can tell you this there has never been a bike like this available anywhere. Remember when there was a post what the ultimate trail 70 would be maybe last year? Well I took your input and am having a bike made to be a close match to your specs by the same company building our present bikes.
Hmmmmm...You have an exclusive but don't want to release any details, interesting. And what, exactly, are those specs you're copying from a bike, the likes of which has never been available? How do you know that such a bike has never been built? What company is building these for you? This one is coming across like a campaign promise, long on initial impact, devoid of detail. If you've got a world-beater with OEM Honda quality, at a fraction of what those greedy Honda folks would charge, then why not proclaim your triumph to the world - loudly? A bike like that would turn the whole scene upside down, knocking Honda, Kawasaki, et al out of business.
We are trying to work with only the best factory's in China
Why so vague, exactly who might those be? Some of the factories supplying parts I source are Honda, Showa, KYB, et al. All top quality and worth mentioning, not hiding. You have an exclusive, why not take pride in it? Could it be that since China is a communist country everything "belongs to the people" and things like patents & copyrights are basically oxymorons there. Does that, perhaps, preclude having atrue exclusive.
Look, bringing the discussion down to a real world level means acknowledging a lot middle ground, with a few absolutes. Among them are commodity prices and skilled craftsmanship. For example, a pound of 5058 aluminum costs what it costs, period. Cheaper alloys get substituted in the name of cost savings. Engine & suspension engineering is beyond the resources of nearly anyone but an OEM. The only way to make a small fortune on CT70-specific running gear, designed & marketed from the ground up would be to start with a large fortune. Likewise, chrome plating, metalfinishing, custom body work, one-off machining, tuning, etc cost what they cost; there aren't any shortcuts. Thus, the designs are "cloned" and details get cost-reduced out of the finished product; there's still no free lunch. Adapting high-end, existing, pieces is expensive as are low-volume items; none have any place on a low-end bike. We deal with things very differently. Of course, I never made direct comparison until you went there first. What I was mentioning is the fact that there is a lot of variation out there and, regardless of who might disagree with me, still maintain that there's no free lunch, only different compromises. I deal with high-end/high-quality machinery and most of what makes them what they are cannot be easily measured in quantitative terms. That's not everyone's cuppa joe. That said, I don't look down the low-end of the scene; it just holds little interest for me. On the other hand, it's a lot easier to understand the entire range of possibilities once one is thoroughly familiarized with the current state-of-the-art.
We are trying to bring the highest quality components that are affordable to the average Joe restorer.
I think you mean the average guy who just wants a new, clean, rider. The typical restorer wants NOS parts or at least OEM detail, not possible to do on the cheap; it's another, distinct, market segment. So, from opposite ends of the spectrum, we both do what we do, see things from our own perspectives and the world is big enough for both, imo. It's only when something is represented inaccurately that I become motivated to clarify issues. For the record, I have seen a fair cross-section of your items.
