02 Rupp Scrambler Trail 70 clone - 12v or 6v? Tips on making lights work?

Discussion in 'CT70 Reproductions' started by Joe_G, Dec 9, 2016.

  1. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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    I think the best ever MPG in my truck is 13.
     
  2. Joe_G

    Joe_G New Member

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    Pulling a bomb with a Vette, there's one I haven't seen!

    Here's the mileage, I was surprised mmyself!
     
    #22 Joe_G, Dec 13, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2016
  3. Joe_G

    Joe_G New Member

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    I spent a little time checking today, pulled out the battery box and checked the wires from the engine. It does not look like the harness was hacked or anything, all connections seem good. Someone did take off the blinkers and left the lines hanging but not exposed.

    I have a new 6V battery installed. When the bike is off, DC voltage is 7 volts. When the bike is running, the voltage runs from 8-10 volts DC.

    With key off, (two position key switch) the horn doesn't work but the bike will run. The handlebar kill switch works fine. With the key on, the horn works.


    I am positive that my headlight switch is faulty which I think explains why I have no lights. I have new handlebar controls on order from Don on Ebay, WebLLC in Colorado. Seems like a very nice man and he's working on Christmas Eve and Christmas! He has the entire wiring harness, lights, speedo, etc. etc. for sale on eBay of $159 but he's selling me pieces that i need. I'll post up after i get the new controls installed.

    One odd thing. My blinker wires show battery voltage when the blinker switch is operated, bike running or not. But the voltage does not "blink".

    Something even more odd. When I operate the horn, voltage to the battery jumps to 16-19 volts depending upon how hard I rev the engine. Any ideas on that?

    Appreciate any thoughts. And Merry Christmas to this crew, seems like a good forum you have here, I'm happy to join up.
     
    #23 Joe_G, Dec 25, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
  4. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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    B52Bombardier1 mentioned the rectifier being bad, allowing AC power to leak thru. You might want to look into that. I think it's a combination regulator/rectifier unit.

    The way your horn button works is that it has one wire going to it...that's DC power to power the horn. When you hit the button, it makes contact with the handlebar/frame/ground...completing the circuit thru the horn. The fact that your meter jumps when your horn button makes the connection to ground makes me think you must have a bad ground somewhere. Maybe find every ground on the wire diagram and check it. Did you verify continuity between the engine and the ignition switch??

    One thing that is VERY VERY odd for your bike is the 6v power thing. It is NOT a 6v bike. That needs to be figured out for sure. I can't imagine 12v components are ever gonna work correctly on only 6 volts of power. If your stator is bad, you need to start there.

    Posting some pics would be a very very good idea. Worth a thousand words. Show us some stuff...maybe we can spot something obvious and save you a bunch of grief.

    Your signal needs to be using power in order to cause the blink. When it lights, it uses power and causes to solenoid to heat up, and... I'm not sure about the rest, lol.
     
    #24 kirrbby, Dec 25, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2016
  5. b52bombardier1

    b52bombardier1 Well-Known Member

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    It'll take something more than a cheap multimeter to read small amounts of AC. Most people have success at the 25-30 dollar buy in for good meters. Hope for less than .5 volts (half of one volt) AC at the battery at half throttle. More than that means bad rectifier.

    Rick
     
    #25 b52bombardier1, Dec 25, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2017
  6. Joe_G

    Joe_G New Member

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    Good idea Kiirrby, I'll take some pics tomorrow of the wiring and a video of what I'm seeing on my meter.

    Appreciate the help fellas!

    Joe
     
  7. Joe_G

    Joe_G New Member

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    My meter is not a Fluke but it's not the cheapest, I should replace the battery as it's been a while and will do so before the video tomorrow.

    BTW my first street bike was a 72 Honda CB500, green no less. That was an awesome bike, wish I'd kept it!
     
    #27 Joe_G, Dec 25, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2017
  8. b52bombardier1

    b52bombardier1 Well-Known Member

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    This CB500 still had the late 70's fuel in the tank and carbs that had re-fossilized. Horrible mess. But she runs well now. I'm debating whether to remove a few tank dents and repaint or simply leave the cosmetics as I found them.

    Rick
     
    #28 b52bombardier1, Dec 26, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2017
  9. Joe_G

    Joe_G New Member

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    Video and pics posted to first post in the thread so it doesn't get lost in all the pics of my car and other bike. lol
     
  10. b52bombardier1

    b52bombardier1 Well-Known Member

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    Let's run a quick check on the AC measurement quality of your multimeter.

    Set the knob to oh, maybe 20 volts AC. Then head to your car and with the engine running, see what you measure for AC volts. I think we can all agree with high assurance that we should see very little AC measured at the battery posts on a running, modern, alternator equipped car.

    If your meter sees much more than half a volt AC at the battery posts on a running automobile engine, me thinks you need a higher quality multimeter.

    Rick
     
    #30 b52bombardier1, Dec 26, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2017
    Smitty Blackstone likes this.
  11. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    Flasher relays, of this era, use a bimetal strip to do the switching. When current is run though it, it heats...a a known rate...then breaks contact, after which it cools, makes contact again and the cycle repeats. This is why you must have the proper amount of current draw, determined by bulb wattage. Too much current draw and the flash rate will be too fast, too little and it'll slow down...or not flash at all.

    The selenium rectifier acts as an electrical check valve. Half the AC waveform passes through, to the battery (as DC) the other half is transformed into waste heat. Those square fins are there to dissipate it.

    Keep in mind that the lighting output is fed by two outputs, from the same lighting coil. And the coil itself is run to ground. With this "balanced" configuration, the battery & bulbs regulate peak voltage. Everything needs to be in tiptop working order and complete or you'll get malfunctioning. The HL circuit is fed raw AC, only while the engine is running, everything else (horn, signals, brake light, neutral light) is fed battery DC power and will work even with the engine not running. I suggest disconnecting the modular connector from the alternator, then feeding both the yellow & white leads 6vDC, which will simulate the same conditions as when the engine is running...makes diagnoses one helluva lot easier than running the engine.

    FYI, the ignition circuit, including its primary stator coil, are discrete (i.e completely separate) from the lighting circuit. That's why the igntion switch works properly, as-is.
     
  12. Joe_G

    Joe_G New Member

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    I've corrected my post - I think it's time for new contacts. My old multimeter had AC next to DC but this one has AC on the other side of the dial.

    I see no AC in the wires, just DC. It didn't make sense to me I was seeing the same AC vs DC voltage...because I wasn't. I was just adjusting the decimal on my meter and reading DC all the time. DUH.

    Anyway, as you all can see from the video, the bike puts out DC like it's 6 volt, IMHO, and the battery box is the size of a 6 volt.

    Any ideas? Think I should buy a 12 volt battery box and battery?

    Is that larger item at the back of the seat housing the rectifier/regulator? Think I should try a new one of those?

    Thanks for the opinions fellas.
     
  13. Joe_G

    Joe_G New Member

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    I sent the video to Don at WebLLC on eBay who sells the parts, I'll post up what he says if he responds back.

    Upon reflection, it seems to me perhaps I need the 12 volt battery box and battery, and a new regulator.

    Does anyone know what the AC output from the stator should be? I'd like to test that before I buy a new regulator, perhaps my stator is weak.

    Thanks!

    [video=youtube;u7xUoOcAFbY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7xUoOcAFbY[/video]
     
  14. b52bombardier1

    b52bombardier1 Well-Known Member

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    The stator output is directly proportional to engine rpm. Guessing here, I'd say you should see 50 VAC at 3/4 throttle or so.

    You could also run a few resistance and continuity checks on what should be the yellow and white stator wires. Do this before unnecessarily replacing your stator.

    Rick
     
    #34 b52bombardier1, Dec 26, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2017
  15. Joe_G

    Joe_G New Member

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    Thanks Rick, I've been reading this evening on the stator tests on our bikes... but I'm a bit confused still - my bike is a LIFAN clone that seems like it should be 12V, but you see the voltage it's putting out.

    Can anyone confirm that small device with two wires under my battery box, the one with the gray and black wires in this picture, is my rectifier? If so, it looks like an original ct70 unit that does not have a regulator built into it. Does that make sense? It would if my bike was 6 volt but I don't think it would if it's 12... which brings me back to my original question. lol

    I believe the other unit with several wires into it in the picture is my CDI unit.


    6D3F7861-923F-4596-884B-BF4F3FC3F447_zpsfrzdybok.jpg
     
    #35 Joe_G, Dec 26, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2017
  16. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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    The device on the battery box is the flasher relay...the wire diagram shows it with the black and grey wires going to it.

    The cdi should have 5 wires.

    The reg/rec should have 4...red white yellow green.
     
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  17. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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    This is a 93 CT70. Regrec is aluminum finned part. Flasher is next to it. CDI is mounted to the bottom of the battery box.

    auploads.tapatalk_cdn.com_20161227_5c33a68904379abb433fed9352d3d13a.jpg
     
    #37 kirrbby, Dec 26, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2017
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  18. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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    auploads.tapatalk_cdn.com_20161227_630fce3ba7f3eebbe573551081d16ee5.jpg auploads.tapatalk_cdn.com_20161227_ce73a465de72cd1172af6166c0d8b895.jpg
     
    #38 kirrbby, Dec 26, 2016
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  19. Joe_G

    Joe_G New Member

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    Thanks Kirrby.

    I didn't remember seeing that finned alum item on my bike. The CDI is the larger black box in my pic. I'll have to do some investigation for that rectifier/regulator on my bike and see where it is, it's definitely not mounted like this one as you can see.
     
    #39 Joe_G, Dec 26, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2017
  20. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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    Follow the wire harness and look for the 4wire connector. I would think it should be near the under seat area somewhere.
     

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