3rd wheel

Discussion in 'Projects/Builds' started by kirrbby, Jan 4, 2020.

  1. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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    I've been collecting parts and info to build a ATC70 for a couple years now...year and a half maybe. I want something I can ride in the off season, and something fun in the snow.

    I swapped Z50 parts for a abandoned ATC70 project. A fellow enthusiast had a nearly complete bike, cleaned and painted...a really nice basket case I spose...but no plastics, and a beat engine.
    Then I also bought a couple of really rough bikes for good measure.

    I bought some of the popular aftermarket stuff from Spanglers...foot brake kit, foot bar, shift lever, battery box. I also bought a set of HL ears, some bearings and brake shoes and other bits.

    Most guys stretch their frames about 2" to make the bike a little more comfortable, and to keep the front wheel on the ground when adding power. So I picked up the tubing and had it turned for a 2" stretch.

    Over the last week I got the frame welded back together, and brought parts home from storage.
    I'm hoping to get this little 3 wheeler operational and ready for a snow storm pretty quickly, but I'm not typically very quick at all. We'll see how that works out.

    I'll try to get some pics posted tonight, or tomorrow.
     
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  3. cjpayne

    cjpayne Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a cool project kirrbby. I run into those old atc70 3wheelers or the 4wheeler every once in a while. I know where a 4wheeler is, but they wont sell. I wanted the engine out of it. I think it may be a 4speed auto.
     
  4. MountainMini

    MountainMini Active Member

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    Very cool. Great for the winter. PhatMX sells front and rear fenders + seats and assorted other atc70 stuff. I see the Honda 185 trikes and up for sale frequently but the little guys are super hard to come across. I have a quad that I use in the winter. With chains. Some guys up here use screw in studs or just put short screws in their knobby tires and ride on the frozen lakes and run the frozen creeks etc. Should be a blast.
     
  5. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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    SS LS1 posted a cool video a while back of his trike in the snow. He's a Michigander too.

     
  6. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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    Parts.
    The mostly complete beater is a 1980. The other is 85. Both have partial engines. I may try to piece the 80 together with a 88cc 4speed. Good beater. My son would love it I'm sure...or my daughter I'd imagine.
    I don't need much from them. Just a grab bar and skid plate... I'm hoping.

    IMG_20200102_153349826.jpg IMG_20200104_184527450.jpg IMG_20200104_184544322.jpg IMG_20200104_184557202.jpg IMG_20200104_184619671.jpg IMG_20200104_184649953.jpg
     
    #5 kirrbby, Jan 5, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
  7. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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    The frame I'm using was cleaned up and painted by the PO. He had started rebuilding this 85 ATC and had painted stuff, rezinced nuts bolts and washers. I'll be using as many of those parts as I can.

    I used a speed square to scribe a straight line down the center of the frame using a utility knife. I used this mark to line up the frame so I could weld it back together straight. I centered my cut between the welded on frame gussets, then cut the frame using a big tubing cutter. It's a tough cut with a tubing cutter, but gives a great result.
    I filed the burrs off so I could get a good I.D. measurement.
    IMG_20191213_184313396.jpg IMG_20191213_184326063.jpg IMG_20191213_203303180.jpg IMG_20191216_200439207.jpg IMG_20191216_200517567.jpg
     
  8. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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    The OD of the frame is 2".
    The ID is 1.8"
    I wanted a 2" stretch.
    Time was/is at a premium. Sidetracking my Xmas shopping, I stopped into Alro Steel and had them cut me four, 15" long pieces of round 2" tubing... it wasn't cheap. $120 I think.
    Then followed a lead to a machine shop to get a couple of them turned on a CNC lathe...it wasn't too cheap either at 45 beans per. Figure $75 each, all in. I wanted 4. Ended up with 2, plus 2 Xtra blanks. Probably less than 3hrs of my valuable time to get the "stretch tubes" made and paid.

    1.8 inches worked out very well. Not too tight. Not loose either. Any rust inside of the frame will have to be cleaned up. I glued extensions on to a small stone wheel, and a 2" flap wheel, so I could reach deep into the frame with them.
    I drilled four, ⅜" holes thru each "half" of the frame to use for "slug welds" ? "plug welds" ? Anyway...8 holes total, and knocked the burrs off inside of the frame.
    I ended up cutting my stretch tube a little shorter on the front end. The original frame is smashed a little out of round where it welds to the head tube. Plus, I wanted my stretch tube to stop short of where I would be drilling for the relocated front tank mount.
    I'll have to get some better pics of the "stretch tube" and post them up later.

    IMG_20191231_162936328.jpg IMG_20191231_163021278.jpg IMG_20191231_164341916.jpg
     
    #7 kirrbby, Jan 5, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
    allenp42 likes this.
  9. mark from florida

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    Looks like a cool project. if plastics are not cracked or ripped. ive seen some videos on youtube of restoring old plastic.nice looking frame splice.
     
  10. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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    In a big ol rush, I drug out my welder and cranked it up fast and hot. Tacked it, used my scribe line to line it up, tacked it, then welded it all up. Did some grinding and touched up welds where I missed. Then more grinding...trying not to remove too much metal from the .1" thick frame tube. I was using a flap disc in a 4" angle grinder.
    A better welder would have made better welds that would require less grinding...I'm not talking about the machine, I'm talking about me. The next time I do a job like this...I'll try a little harder to get set up right, and make neat welds. And hopefully by then I'll just be better at it in general. But I'm confident I got a good strong stretch here.
    Then I drilled a couple of ½" holes, 2" back, for the relocated front tank mount. Cut off and filled in the old mounts. More grinding. A little filing and sanding. It was 35° that day. I had a can of black Rust-Oleum. I tossed the frame up on my tailgate and hosed the area with a layer of protection. Then sat it in front of my big torch for a little while to cook it up nice :)

    IMG_20191231_173235129.jpg IMG_20191231_173249982.jpg IMG_20191231_173303903.jpg IMG_20200101_140215186.jpg IMG_20200101_141656670.jpg IMG_20200101_144106087.jpg IMG_20200101_144516394.jpg IMG_20200101_144523656.jpg IMG_20200101_144543728.jpg
     
    #9 kirrbby, Jan 5, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
  11. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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    IMG_20200101_144612192.jpg IMG_20200101_152555527.jpg IMG_20200101_152718421.jpg IMG_20200101_152733135.jpg IMG_20200101_154456858.jpg

    I think now, this thread is caught up to where I'm at with this project. Time to start figuring out the next modification.
     
  12. SteveB

    SteveB Member

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    Nice work I'm getting inspired to get going on my CT 70H project

    Loved the Video keep them coming
     
  13. hrc200x

    hrc200x Active Member

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    Glad your doing a atc70. They are great fun when you get a couple of them riding around. Ride quality isn't that of a ct because lack of suspension (next build maybe?), but kids don't mind. someone on a facebook atc70 site makes the frame stretches but not sure of the price and too late now. If you have a decent gas tank and working recoil those are probably the top 2 wear out items on a atc70. I believe 83 was the first year for 4 speed, and did the shifting go to up shift in '85 only?
     
  14. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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    Thanks guys.
    When I first started thinking about this project, I posted the question over on PM (planetminis.com)... 3 wheels or 4? The answer came back...3 wheels, is more funner. I would have guessed 3 wheels too. I wasn't sure about the frame stretch tho. I want this thing to be wheelie happy...spin around, pull a wheelie, go fast, spin around and wheelie again. They say that even with the 2" stretch, they're still pretty light in the front. I guess I'll see what I think when this one is done...but a 1-1½" stretch might have been enough for me. Or, no stretch at all for a short dude like myself. I have no experience with ATC70s, Soo...no opinions yet either.

    From what I understand, ATC70s went to 4 gears, downshift, mid run 1982. Then changed to upshift in starting with 1985 models. Then...no more 3 wheelers. They transformed into 4 wheelers...TRX70s in 86-87, with the same transmission and still 4up. Then no more TRX70s. They transformed into TRX90s with a different, 4up transmission...whole new engine really. But the TRX90 engines have the same basic...shape. Similar design. And have the same mounting bolt pattern as our Z50, CT70, SL CL XR CRF and ATC70 engines.
    I will be using my "trans mounted clutch" modified TRX90 engine on this project...113cc 4up, trick manual clutch that allows the engine to idle in gear.
    This was a recommendation from SS LS1. The trick clutch allows the ATC to bog right out while climbing a hill, or in deep sand or snow without stalling the engine.
    I think it's a marvelous idea/plan.

    https://lilhonda.com/index.php?threads/trans-mounted-clutch-trx90.21366/
     
    #13 kirrbby, Jan 5, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
    racerx likes this.
  15. mark from florida

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    used to have a stock 110 3 wheeler. that thing would climb a wall
     
  16. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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    My counterpart here at work has a honda 200 at home that he uses as a workhorse. He says that his is pretty amazing too. His yard IS a hill. He pulls trailers around loaded with firewood and such.
     
  17. Tripod

    Tripod Active Member

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    Nice project. Im looking forward to more updates on it. An ATC70 is definately on the list.
     
  18. wanrep

    wanrep Active Member

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    Kirby, you've inspired me to dig the atc70 out of the corner of the shop and get it running.
    Let us know what you think when you get to road test it.
     
  19. loopiemclooperson

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    Looking good Kirrbby! I got a couple basket case ATC’s running and riding last year. Tons of fun. Didn’t stretch the frame, just did the big bars and forward pegs. The extra 2”s will be awesome! On one of them I rebuilt a TRX90 engine back to stock and popped it in. It is a major upgrade over the stocker. The 113cc will be nuts.
    Got a Heise LED bar that fit nice with the spanglers ears. Still need to wire though.
    Here are a couple pics...
     

    Attached Files:

  20. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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    Hey Loopie! Thanks for chiming in. Those look like good bikes to me. I like that blue one for sure. That's the Christmas special, or something like that, isn't it? I'm going to be buying plastics for mine pretty quick. I don't typically have good "vision"...i.e. I can't visualize a good looking bike without seeing one in a pic, or in person etc. So I tend to copy something that I like, and that's usually Honda's original design. So I was planning to buy red plastics, blue seat, and stock decals, then spice it up a little with wheels tires lights.
    If someone out there knows of a especially nice looking color scheme and/or design for a ATC70, please post a pic :)
    Black and blue sounds cool. And I've seen quite a few white ones that were pretty sweet. I feel no obligation to keep this bike "correct"...like I often do with CTs and Z's. But I'm really close to getting the regular ol red that's available everywhere. Then dressing up my 85 trike to look very much like a 85 trike. Kinda feels like a cop out...no vision.

    Here's a pic of the "stretch tube" and the xtended Burr getters. Again, the dimensions on the stretch tube are, 2” O.D. with ¼" wall thickness, 15 long, turned down to 1.8" each end.
    I ended up cutting almost 2" off of the end that went toward the front of the bike.
    I should weigh that piece now that it's been machined down. It was a pretty hunky chunk of steel to start with. I'll bet it still weighs about 4lbs.

    IMG_20200105_171302942.jpg
     
  21. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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    Couple hours here, a few hours there.
    I got the holes and slot done for the new brake pedal. The kit comes with aluminum templates that work well. Mount them on the frame using existing threaded holes, mark the holes (with a scribe), find centers (with compass/calipers), punch centers, drill holes...stepping up to the correct size...7/16 for the brake pedal bolt, and around 5/8 for the link arm slot. Then I cut the straight section with a Dremel cutting wheel, and smoothed/shaped everything with the Dremel drum sander. The brake pedal kit is pretty slick and seems nice. I forgot to put the return spring on there before I took the pics.
    Today I got the old rear bearings and seals out, cleaned up the races, installed the bearings, but had a question about the seals. I messaged Spanglers...got a reply very quickly from them...good folks over there IMO.
    The new bearing kit came with 3 different seals. Original seals were identical. Soo...what goes where?? Spanglers says the seal with no lip goes on the brake drum side. The seal with the shorter lip goes on the sprocket side. Seal with long lip is extra and unused on the ATC70s.
    Since I had looked everything over pretty close, that answer made good sense to me.
    The more I work on this bike the more I like it, and the more I'm excited about it. Good ol Honda!

    It looks like a CT70 wire harness will lay in there about the right length, and everything will terminate in good/acceptable spots. But I'll have to modify a old...probably K0 harness to work with my 12V CDI engine. Hope to make pretty short work of that, but I need to order some parts...CDI, coil, reg/rec some bulbs and wire terminals and such. I'm thinking a repop K1 Z50 ignition switch might be the ticket for a 3 wheeler. Keyswitch security, small as it is, can't hurt, might help, and I will like it if nothing else.
    Headlight on...no dimmer or on/off switch. Taillight, brakelight, neutral light, and that's it. No kill switch either...I have no use for them when there's a keyswitch.

    Few pics...

    IMG_20200105_180749769.jpg IMG_20200106_191149040.jpg IMG_20200106_191158340.jpg IMG_20200106_191657498.jpg IMG_20200107_205428784.jpg IMG_20200107_210715075.jpg
     

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