Adding a LED to an aftermarket large housing.

Discussion in 'Modifications' started by Deoodles, Nov 15, 2019.

  1. Deoodles

    Deoodles Well-Known Member

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    I used the 12v regulated ac to feed the signals only. Results are promising I need to be at a high idle min.



     
  2. Deoodles

    Deoodles Well-Known Member

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    Today I finally understand half wave vs full wave. The main obstacle is ungrounding the stator winding from chassis ground. I know you have said this a thousand times Bob but until I was ready for this it was over my head. That said. Another question. Does there have to be an even numbers of poles on the stator to do this? I have 3. I also have a CRF70 CDI that has poles that are not wound for lights. Could this be wound for full wave? I need a winter project......
     
  3. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    Yep, you've reached an "aha!! moment", feels good, doesn't it? Your learning path was the opposite of mine. I grasped the floating ground aspect right off the bat, then struggled with the very science that you understand quite well. That's what I love about these discussions. Different people coming at the same problem from different angles...meeting somewhere in the middle, with solutions & explanations that benefit everybody. This is what I was alluding too when I said that not dumbing-down the tech stuff (ostensibly, too much information) was not the best way to go. You never know when a beginner, or inspired amateur, may catch something basic that someone with true expertise might miss...simply because it happens to be a blind spot. And we all have blind spots. IOW, the simplest oversights/mistakes oftentimes belong to most qualified people. This is why a fresh, non-standard, viewpoint is more than welcome.

    Now, that's the $64 question. I've been given conflicting answers regarding the number of poles. It's either "an even number is needed to have a balanced push-pull AC output to a bridge diode rectifier"...or... "awww it doesn't matter how many poles the array is just one big coil".

    IMO, you need: an even number of coils, wired in-series, with alternating rotation windings (CW-CCW-CW-CCW...etc), no ground, each end lead, from the array (or coil) feeding one input of the reg/rec unit. And, yes, the CRF50/70 stator armature is exactly what I have in mind...CT70 & XR70 are good, too, if you can find one. The CT70 version is the only one (of which I am aware) that has the poles wound, from the factory. I know someone who has wound 4 poles of one of these, as discussed...and got ~50W of full-wave/DC power, which is plenty. FYI, the load testing was done "seat-of-the-pants-dyno" style...progressively higher wattage HL bulbs, until system voltage & light output declined.

    I dare say that all five poles could be wound in-series/alternating rotations...with one end of the array run to ground. That'd probably give you ~65W of available AC power but, I've no clue as to how you'd regulate voltage.
     
  4. Deoodles

    Deoodles Well-Known Member

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    I going to say that I think the talent to get this done is on this site. Winding 4 poles would be a good test but.... the flywheel used is also going to be a challenge. My current setup has an 85mm stator and 87mm inside diameter flywheel that also fits my 54mm crank. The crf flywheel is 85mm that does not fit my crank,with a stator dia of 53mm. Anyone care to comment on stator to flywheel gaps I could run the crf stator with my flywheel but the gap would be close to 2mm around the diameter instead of the 1mm that seems built in to a matching set.
     
  5. allenp42

    allenp42 Well-Known Member

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    I have checked a few Hitachi and Mitsubishi combos, 6v flavor, and they always measure ~1mm less than the flywheel ID. This means a gap of ~0.5mm at each stator pole. Not familiar at all with CRF flywheels and stators (yet) but should know a little more after the first of the year.

    I’m a little surprised to see 2mm difference because gap is one factor of many that affects how much juice you can extract from the stator. However, I think CRF flywheels have stronger magnets in the flywheel which may help to offset the change to a wider gap?? Honestly, no experience so take my guesses with a grain of salt.
     
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  6. Deoodles

    Deoodles Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info. This could get hard. I would need a 4 speed flywheel for CDI and it would need to fit the crf stator. I might be looking for a unicorn.
     
  7. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    You'd need a 12v/CDI flywheel, to go with the CRF stator and a crank with the 12v taper, to fit the flywheel. Short of an adapter bushing, if that's even possible, that's the only way this will work. That's why I suggest 12v/CDI conversion, using OEM Honda electrics, when the engine is being built...just as easy to click the "12v" box when ordering the parts. Afterward...not so much.:(
     
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  8. Deoodles

    Deoodles Well-Known Member

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    Agree but not really very distraught I’ve got more than enough juice to run this setup BUT. I would take that advice and hope anyone reading does as well.
     
  9. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    A couple of points worth repeating...

    1.) "Measure twice, cut once" in custom bike (or any vehicle, for that matter) terms should be translated into something that makes Murphy sound like an optimist. Gearheads are highly susceptible to the "coulda-woulda-shoulda" bug.

    With few exceptions, 12v is the best option and affords one the most options. This applies to both engine and electrical setups. At this late date, if I were building 108cc+ tune, for road use, it'd be a 12v platform. Specifically, I'd go with a CRF/XR alternator, wind the lighting coil array, use a TT150 reg/rec and take my choice of CDI modules...probably sticking with OEM. This is modestly-priced, proven-reliable, tech...an easy 50W DC and no more breaker points. When starting from scratch, adding 12v items to the e-cart is no more effort than 6v.

    Once an engine is assembled, changing-out major parts becomes cost-prohibitive...from a practical perspective....not to mention demoralizing. In which case...

    2.) This is a great example of "if something is done well, then there usually is such a thing as good enough"...truly. Were I in your shoes, I wouldn't discard/change-out anything. The engine performs well and even though electrical output is near the low-end limit, the minimum goal (vastly improved lighting and keeping the battery charged) has been realized. Any "shortfall" is merely aspirational, in the strictest sense, overkill that was not achieved. The drivers who now see you earlier than would have been possible with less lumens will never know that you were hoping for another few watts from your alternator.;)
     
  10. allenp42

    allenp42 Well-Known Member

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    Just a thought. Since you've already switched over to LED lights, you don't need a lot of power from the stator and Rec/Reg. Unless there is something about your current setup that is still a pain or giving you grief, you're probably out of the woods.

    Also, I don't know the gap on a XR/CRF stator to flywheel, but would assume it's fine or else it would have been flushed out by now. I'm in the camp that if it's Honda....it will work.
     
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  11. Deoodles

    Deoodles Well-Known Member

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    I haven’t switched the signals to led. I may try that but I’m still learning/ experimenting. Here is the latest. I received the ac to dc converter. It is a mystery to me on connecting it. Ac is 2 wires and the bike only has 1 and the ground??? Any guesses out there on correctly connecting. I tried the obvious yellow and ground then black dc neg and red dc pos. That wasn’t it. I also tried white and yellow for ac and that didn’t do it. I want to feed the signals with this.
    100D04BE-ACFF-4C24-92D9-2EC4F3BBB0EF.png
     
  12. Deoodles

    Deoodles Well-Known Member

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    Also. Pat brought up the idea of a real LED headlight and I thought why not. Low beam is 30w. High is 40w. Can’t wait to try it out in the dark. Still battery fed.
    656B714D-26B4-4DFE-AB93-21A13CA77E7C.png 226F8DBC-EEA7-42CC-B48B-76A5DAC4B5F2.png 842BCE78-8172-49A9-99AC-6D76EC8219AB.png
     
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  13. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    Isn't that just a full-wave, bridge diode, rectifier? If it is, your stator cannot be grounded, otherwise all the current get dumped to ground and you get zero output.

    A 40W LED headlight should be incredibly bright. The 16W/24W unit I'm running is brighter than most car headlights, doesn't make much heat, either. Hottest spot, inside the HL shell, I've measured at 120F. My point is that if your system can keep up with the 30/40W LED, you can go with less wattage and still have first-rate lighting.
     
  14. OLD CT

    OLD CT Well-Known Member

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    Looks great Ray! I can see real good at night with mine on high beam. I think you will like it.
     
  15. Deoodles

    Deoodles Well-Known Member

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    if I knew more than I do I could attempt an answer. I don’t know. Your more than likely correct. Think all LEDs in the signals is next.

    I’m going to use the seat of the pants Dino on the headlight. I can take it out in the daytime and run it to see how long if ever the battery takes to die. My multimeter says I am positive .2v dc when it’s running and even voltage with the high beam on I can live with negative voltage at idle if it can catch back up at rpms
     
  16. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    Absofriggenlutely...as long as the battery doesn't discharge, .2vdc above the balance point voltage needed to keep everything fed is entirely adequate. And, yes, if the battery discharges slowly at idle, or when the brake light is activated, those brief charging deficits won't take long to erase/"catch-up" on, once under way.

    BTW, turn signals, by virtue of the short duration cycle don't pull as much current as you might think...even if the total draw is comparatively high, when illuminated. They're not illuminated very long.
     
  17. allenp42

    allenp42 Well-Known Member

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    The 2 red wires are for the AC input (no polarity), which means one of the red wires has to be grounded in your case. Most likely, what you have is a power supply without the transformer ......and isolation. With that said, I suspect the one you have does not have isolation. Agree with the other comments, if the input (red wires) goes straight to a FWB and then on to the regulator etc., it will not work. I really should not guess any more because it would just add more confusion.

    Honestly, I would take a look at a temp modification to feed your existing 12vdc to your turn signal circuit. It would involve "breaking the yellow" connection and picking up 12dc. If you like, I'll gladly take a closer look at your wiring diagram just to make sure it's possible and hopefully, how to do it? But if you want to continue experimenting, I'll poke around and see if I can find a widget that will work.
     
  18. Deoodles

    Deoodles Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Allen, I ordered a handful of led bulbs for the signals. 1157 for the front and 1156 for the rear.3w each so in theory I’m going from 24w system to a 1w system. If that works out I’m done. Let’s see.
     
    #78 Deoodles, Dec 8, 2019 at 12:51 AM
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019 at 6:06 AM
  19. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    Isn't 1157 a dual-filament tailght bulb?
     
  20. Deoodles

    Deoodles Well-Known Member

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    I use 1157 up front for running lights they are dual purpose. Running/signals. I think these small bikes need all they can get to ensure they can be seen. You can see them in posts 61 and 72. At 8w each and another 8w per signal. I had to take signals off the battery to eliminate the flashing headlight when I used signals. Running lights are battery powered. I’m wishful that this led conversion will reduce load enough to work I’m asking a lot from a 12v 5ah battery but the bike stator can keep it charged
     
    #80 Deoodles, Dec 10, 2019 at 1:05 AM
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2019 at 1:16 AM
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