Adding a LED to an aftermarket large housing.

Discussion in 'Modifications' started by Deoodles, Nov 15, 2019.

  1. Deoodles

    Deoodles Well-Known Member

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    I’m back on this project. It took a month for my led bulbs to show up. After hours of failure I called Pat. He talked me down :) It turns out that the 1157 led bulbs care about which side is the flasher and which is the running light. Once I got past that I ran into another issue with the flash. Turns out that I need incandescent in the rear to provide enough resistance in the system to get the proper flash speed. The headlight doesn’t mind that combo and does not flash. I need to replace some damaged signal sockets and I will. That may put the whole bike on DC and keep the battery charged. I hope to wrap this up by the end of the month.
     
  2. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    If you have 12vdc, do yourself a big favor, Ray...source an electronic flasher relay. Trying to match current load for the entire circuit, to a specific, mechanical, relay can be an exercise in frustration...if not futility.
     
  3. Deoodles

    Deoodles Well-Known Member

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    I bought 2 over the summer. I thought they were electronic. Now I’m second guessing. They are a small cube with 2 pins. Smaller than the 12v regulator. Is there a way to tell? Here is what I’m using.

    0A7BF896-AEBE-4D4A-BAA1-DED10E47076A.jpeg
     
    #83 Deoodles, Jan 10, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2020
  4. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    IDK Ray. I've had solid, repeatable, results...zero problems...with this unit

    And I've used it with LEDs, bulbs and a mix of those. It's non load-dependent.
     
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  5. allenp42

    allenp42 Well-Known Member

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    I have a couple of these as well. Yep, they are electronic and work fine from about 5.5vdc up to 15 or so. The cover is easily removed, and you should see a small circuit board inside. Just take a small screwdriver and gently pry to the cover off. I seem to recall there was a spot/latch point? They are not glued or potted internally so it should be easy.

    Just remember, terminal "B" goes to the source of your 12v and "L" goes to wire coming from the lamp. Neither this one or the OEM Honda works if these wires are reversed.
     
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  6. Deoodles

    Deoodles Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info. My sockets arrive today and I’m going to see how this works this weekend. I think I have it figured out. I have Bobs recommendation in my back pocket if this fails. Can I cut the wire to the buzzer without causing trouble?
     

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    #86 Deoodles, Jan 11, 2020 at 11:01 AM
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2020 at 11:13 AM
  7. allenp42

    allenp42 Well-Known Member

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    Yep, not a problem. I did this on the one I use as well.
     
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  8. Deoodles

    Deoodles Well-Known Member

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    I worked the signals up with new sockets and ran into 2 issues. The first was feedback voltage from the 1157 bulb messed up the signals. I fixed that with a diode on the orange and light blue wires in the headlight housing. With the new China flasher the signals came in but didn’t flash. If I used 10w bulbs in the rear signals the flash was good but the headlight flashed. I replaced the flasher and went back to all led bulbs that helped a lot. I have a decent flash rate and the headlight is solid on. I want to tweak this a little more and need some help.
    Is there someplace in the system that I can add resistors to improve the flash rate so it flashes like is does with the 10w incandescent bulbs? Where would they go and what resistance? That would be awesome if I can. I would be 100% led and 12v DC with a total draw of about 28 watts. My stator can handle that
     
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  9. Deoodles

    Deoodles Well-Known Member

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  10. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    Yep, with an all-LED lighting system, 28W should do the job, reliably.

    I applaud your hard work & dedication wrestling the relay into submission. (y) I'd not have the patience (probably owing to my lack of electronic knowledge) to battle my way through the flasher rate issue(s).
     
  11. Deoodles

    Deoodles Well-Known Member

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    I want to see this through. I still have the relay you recommended on standby but I think a properly sized and placed resistor should do it. Thanks!
     
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  12. allenp42

    allenp42 Well-Known Member

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    For sure, if the wires going to terminals "B" and "L" are swapped, I remember having the same problem. But on the other hand, I suspect that you checked and have it correct?

    I see to recall testing the ones I have with a 5 watt bulb...but pretty sure I tested at 6v. Within the next day or so, will pull one out and test again but using 12v. It's not a problem for me to test, and I'll also try to see if there's a quirk in how these $2 flashers work.
     
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  13. allenp42

    allenp42 Well-Known Member

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    A little faster than I expected. I tried it with a single 1129 incandescent (12v/23w) and it flashed fine from about 6.2v all the way to ~17vdc. I also hooked up a LED bulb I have which draws about 5 watts of power. Worked fine at 13.5vdc but would not come on below ~11vdc. Now again, this was an LED bulb that I think is equivalent of 25watt incandescent.
     
  14. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    I fully expect that you will get this to work...and I understand why you'll see it through. After this epic voyage, who would give up with land finally in sight?

    OTOH, this is the expected counterpoint:
    A 6-bulb, 8-filament, load compliment and a load-dependent relay is, to my mind, a lot of plates that must be kept spinning. Change one component, and they start crashing. I suppose one strategy is to stock-up on these parts, right now, while you can get identical specimens. The $64 question is "what's the bottom line?". Doesn't take many spares to erase the cost difference(s). Having said that, I am definitely NOT pissing on your parade...IOW I'm really looking forward to the post when you document your success, which I think is imminent. What you've done here is provide a practical lesson in real-world electrical engineering that's not going to be found anywhere else. It answers the important questions of "what" is involved in building your own system, "how" to go about it and "why" one solution is best for an individual.

    The electronic relay might be viewed as a lifeline. It's there, should all else fail, or anything change along the way. And, I think we'll be seeing more electronic/non load-dependent options in time.
     
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  15. Deoodles

    Deoodles Well-Known Member

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    For me success is more than led converted signals. I want more. I want a 12volt DC on the cheap system that runs the headlight and all other components AND a system that stays charged. I think I’m there. I soldered all my wires and connectors. Buttoned the bike up and ran some initial readings.

    With the key off the battery reads 12.456 volts
    (high beam on and signal flashing, all lights on The full load)
    With the key on the battery reads 12.317 volts
    With the motor running the battery is at 12.536 volts at idle and at 4000 rpm it is 12.902 volts.

    I’m going to install a volt meter so I can observe battery status while I’m out riding. I don’t have any idea how it will react to a night time 75 mile loop I like to ride. Next phase is testing. Also, the flasher that works best is out of a sky team 125. These China flashers are a crap shoot. You have to get lucky the $2.00 China flasher didn’t work for me.
     
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  16. allenp42

    allenp42 Well-Known Member

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    Woo hoo. Sounds like you have it working. That's all that matters in my book. You're probably right about $2 flashers. They seem to work work well with incandescent bulbs on 6V or 12v systems but sounds like they may be finicky with LED lamps. I don't have a lot of experience with small LED Lamps, only residential LED .....and for sure, it's the wild wild west in that field.

    You really are going all out on testing battery charge, but by the values you posted the battery is being charged. In other words, providing sufficient amount of juice for the lighting and charging the battery. I expect that you'll find the battery voltage continues to rise up to 14-14.5 volts on an long ride. Most of the ones I've used, limit the charge voltage to somewhere in this range. However, take that with a grain of salt because I've only used 2-3 different Rec/Regs.
     
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  17. Deoodles

    Deoodles Well-Known Member

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    I have a working system but the flasher relay doesn’t meet my standards. Bob mentioned a better relay. I’m going to spend some time looking into that one and others like it. What I have now is good enough to use but I want the flash closer to what an oem would be. I have a Honda F6c that is all led from the factory so I know what is possible. I will share results and source if and when I find what works.
     
  18. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    I've never run across an SLA battery that reads more than ~12.6V, fully charged. IMHO, that's not a bad thing. Over-voltage doesn't do anything good for component life. I'm using a trimpot-adjustable regulator, set to 12.8V. FYI, that's lower than the manufacturer recommends (13.2V minimum) and I may end up paying for my stubbornness. However, the unit only gets warm to the touch, 110-120F surface temp. That's below levels possible from just parking a vehicle in the sun, or typical "underhood" temps.

    If the system is naturally topping-out around 12.6-13V, it's very well-balanced.
     
  19. Deoodles

    Deoodles Well-Known Member

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    Thanks! I’m wondering what’s going to happen to the unused AC voltage and if my regulator will handle it. Also. If my regulator will overcharge the battery. Only way for me to figure those out will be to ride it and see.
     
  20. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    That's why I dialed-down the voltage...to pretty much the same value your system has, in its present configuration. I'm under the impression that these (nominally) 12V batteries will survive with up ~16V. A full-wave rec/rec should dump excess voltage to ground...what I lack is the knowledge to explain how that is accomplished.

    Having a voltmeter ought to tell you what's going on with your charging system. Only thing better would be the addition of an ammeter...and that's overkill even by my standards. :LOL:

    I believe that most electrical components are built to withstand substantially higher-than-nominal voltage and most of the half-wave, "balanced" systems exceed nominal voltage huge amounts, that goes for 6v as well as 12v. IDK if it's just the cheap Chinese reg/rec units or the crude setup. When I ran half-wave, with a reg/rec that came with the Z110 motor, there were clear indications that the electrolyte was being boiled-off. I went to a SLA battery a few weeks before I swapped-in the Honda Nice motor, losing the opportunity to investigate further. I mention this because there are also clear indications that the SLA battery is way more tolerant of abuse than the old leakers. I never checked anything but battery voltage, engine not running, which doesn't tell you very much.

    Suffice it to say that you've realized a system voltage balance with finesse that would have been the envy of factory engineers, back when these bikes were new models. Between the lack of voltage spikes, over-voltage in general, and the more robust components I see a recipe for longterm success. If that weren't enough, there's a known reg/rec unit available...for less than the dinner tab at Steakback Outhouse...should the worst happen. ;)
     

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