Best Chinese trail 70 clone?
- Thread starter Beedo
- Start date
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The best that I've seen are made by Jincheng (Suzuki of China). Unfortunately, no one has imported them for a couple of years or so. They used to retail for about $1600 until the last few were "fire saled" for around $900 circa 2004.
Not sure about the latest crop on ebay. Every summer I see at least two or three new brand names at swap meets/trade shows, but haven't attended any yet this year. What I saw in 2004 & 2005 looked pretty crude. Even my wife kept pointing out the rough edges
. That's saying something! The newer bikes are retailing, in some cases, for as little as $600. There's still no such thing as a free lunch, so do your homework.
There have been three sellers in Michigan over the past six months. One in Port Huron, one in Dearborn and another across the state in Grand Rapids. I believe that one was called "cwpowersports". If you can find one locally, then you can at least see the bikes and save yourself a nice bundle on shipping. You'll also be able to ask questions regarding warranties & replacement parts face-to-face.
Not sure about the latest crop on ebay. Every summer I see at least two or three new brand names at swap meets/trade shows, but haven't attended any yet this year. What I saw in 2004 & 2005 looked pretty crude. Even my wife kept pointing out the rough edges
. That's saying something! The newer bikes are retailing, in some cases, for as little as $600. There's still no such thing as a free lunch, so do your homework. There have been three sellers in Michigan over the past six months. One in Port Huron, one in Dearborn and another across the state in Grand Rapids. I believe that one was called "cwpowersports". If you can find one locally, then you can at least see the bikes and save yourself a nice bundle on shipping. You'll also be able to ask questions regarding warranties & replacement parts face-to-face.
TrailRyd3r
Member
www.hooperimports.com
They have really good bikes, my dad is a dealer for them , and our bikes have been holding up nicely. But you do have to do a little wrenching on them to make them sound, but that is any bike that you buy.
Anything will look crude compared to your bikes racerx.
They have really good bikes, my dad is a dealer for them , and our bikes have been holding up nicely. But you do have to do a little wrenching on them to make them sound, but that is any bike that you buy.
Anything will look crude compared to your bikes racerx.
MSZ
Moderator
If you have to replace things or "wrench" on a bike when it's new in the box, I wouldn't exactly call that a quality copy.
If you want a clone, purchase the cheapest one you can find and then upgrate it with quality parts. There was a clone on ebay yesterday, slightly used and it sold for chump change.
I'd rather buy a Honda and restomod it and have it worth something a year from now instead of it being virtually worthless 3-5 years from now.
Just my opinion...
If you want a clone, purchase the cheapest one you can find and then upgrate it with quality parts. There was a clone on ebay yesterday, slightly used and it sold for chump change.
I'd rather buy a Honda and restomod it and have it worth something a year from now instead of it being virtually worthless 3-5 years from now.
Just my opinion...
TrailPunisher
Member
The better clones have a lot of chrome instead of black plastic,machined aluminum wheels instead of rough cast aluminum and adjustable rear shocks.
They carry a lot of different brand names, The best I have found in my region (Ohio/Indiana) is the Firehawk branded ones.I do not know who manufactured it, I forgot what it said on the MSO,All I could find is a lifan marking on the engine and rear fender plastic.
I also have a 2005 Chongqing-Charming manufactured clone and its pretty much a beater, a total thrasher. I paid $350 for it and I use it for others ( kids )to ride and as a test platform for different engines.
The clone bikes are for thrashing around on and beating up, not for accumulating value. i would recommend replacing some of the cheap nuts and washers on the bike and checking / re-taping the wiring since they just lay there in the frame.
They carry a lot of different brand names, The best I have found in my region (Ohio/Indiana) is the Firehawk branded ones.I do not know who manufactured it, I forgot what it said on the MSO,All I could find is a lifan marking on the engine and rear fender plastic.
I also have a 2005 Chongqing-Charming manufactured clone and its pretty much a beater, a total thrasher. I paid $350 for it and I use it for others ( kids )to ride and as a test platform for different engines.
The clone bikes are for thrashing around on and beating up, not for accumulating value. i would recommend replacing some of the cheap nuts and washers on the bike and checking / re-taping the wiring since they just lay there in the frame.
TrailRyd3r
Member
Pony Express said:
w/e
Any clone bike out there you would have to wrench on or replace something eventually. Thats just the way they are, I dont care what brand you buy, they all have somewhat cheap parts and have to be upgraded.
We have 7 original Honda CTs. We bought these repos to ride while we are fixing up our originals.
Chinese bikes don't have a dealership/parts network like Honda. Someone imports a container of them on a one-shot basis then sells them on ebay. Once they're gone, that's it in most cases. All of the replacement parts, if any, come with the container load or bikes. A few sellers seem to keep at it, usually they're the ones with a bike shop and they sell other bikes/brands or perform repairs. Most seem to move on to toasters, knockoff designer apparel, tchochkies or whatever else they figure can be flipped fast. The advantage of dealing face-to-face is that you actually get to see what's for sale before committing your bucks. CWpowersports is probably nothing more than someone working from home trying to make a few bucks on the side. Doesn't mean he's dishonest, but he's not a "bricks & mortar" dealership either. That's the Achilles' heel of PRC copies, they're instant orphans.
wunderful62
Member
1972 hondaCT70
hello there , i just found this site,while researching the internet on this ct70 i bought this weekend. this is my first post,i am glad to see this forum.i just sent a larger post but must have done something wrong as it didnt make it,ill test this send for now.
hello there , i just found this site,while researching the internet on this ct70 i bought this weekend. this is my first post,i am glad to see this forum.i just sent a larger post but must have done something wrong as it didnt make it,ill test this send for now.
Got to be a showroom
If you look at there website cwpowersports.com and read all the great comments everybody has written in their Guest Book I have to belive that they have a wharehouse or shop in Port Huron, Mi!! I would really like to find the address of their NEW location if anybody has ever visited them.
If you look at there website cwpowersports.com and read all the great comments everybody has written in their Guest Book I have to belive that they have a wharehouse or shop in Port Huron, Mi!! I would really like to find the address of their NEW location if anybody has ever visited them.
TrailRyd3r
Member
Same looking bikes that I can get
My 2001 Jincheng Panda Trail Rider
I would like to weigh in on this one, having had my own experience with it...
I had a Jincheng Panda Trail Rider, which I purchased in 2001 before the company went out of business. I have had LOTS of problems with it, but I will say that when it is running, it runs great and is a lot of fun. However...and this is a big "however"...you are taking a big risk in purchasing one of these, for the simple reason that they are decidedly non-standard, parts are often difficult to find, and you will find that many mechanics and shops will refuse to work on them.
One Honda shop I took it to did what I asked, but then said "don't bring it back. It's too much of a pain." Tthe shop I go to now, the mechanic is willing to work on it, because he's a nice guy, but he hates it. For example, the wiring is diffierent, especially in the the color-coding, so that what would normally be a simple job becomes a long drawn-out process. Plus, except for tires and mirrors and the most basic interchangable items, etc, it can be impossible to find parts. The simplest jobs, that he does every day of the week, become a big deal.
(My problems were compounded by purchasing it from Brad at Oldhonda.com, who offered very poor service. Below, see the letter which I'm going to post on any Honda mini-trail sites I can find.)
I am aware that some of the dealers who specialize in Chinese bikes DO provide service (Powerbikes.com, for one. Good, ethical people. And Retrobikes.com actually goes to China and works with the manufacturers to insure quality consistency.) But I repeat: it can be risky.
Me, I went and got a 1971 CT70 n ebay and I love it.
Letter re: Brad Hendon and Oldhonda.com
I would like the CT70 community to know about Brad Hendon, a dealer in Texas who runs a business called Oldhonda.com. In the past several years I have had ample opportunities to form a judgment about his business ethics and commitment to service.
In 2002, I purchased a 2001 Jincheng Panda Trail Rider, which is one of the myriad Honda CT70 clones. I did now know it was a Chinese bike until it arrived, not having any experience at all in this area; I just wanted a "Minitrail 70," and it seemed like a chance to get a new one.
Nonetheless, I enjoyed riding the bike for a few months, until it stopped working. I needed a part. I informed Brad of this, and promptly, only four months later, I received the part. Four months. I was grounded for a third of the year, waiting for a simple part.
During that time I phoned or emailed him several times, asking him simply when I could expect the part to arrive. I was polite as can be. I got nothing back, until finally he sent me an irritable message stating "I ordered it. what do you want me to do?" As a result of this, the Honda dealership told me never to bring the bike back; they were disgusted and irritated at the lengthy wait for a part, which was supposed to arrive ‘any day now.’
Over the years, I ordered other parts. Brad was sometimes helpful, and if the part was in stock, it would arrive in a timely manner. But anything requiring any extra effort to locate, I would have to pester Brad to get him even to respond to me.
Early in 2005, the bike would no longer start. I was told by my local Honda mechanic that I needed a stator.
After contacting Brad, who said he’d order it for me, I waited two months for the part, and again I couldn't get him to return an email or phone call. He said he was trying to order one for me, but I couldn't pin him down on it and find out if it was going to arrive or not.
Finally, I gave up and decided that if I ever wanted to ride this bike again I’d better locate a stator on my own. Understand: I am not an experienced rider or mechanic. I didn’t grow up around bikes. I didn’t know anything about stators or anything else. I needed to rely on my dealer to help me out on this, and I got nothing.
After weeks of my own research, I thought I'd found a stator, and emailed him to ask if I should go with that one or wait for his. He sent me the following response: "Get it from them. I don't have one in stock."
That is the level of service one can expect from Brad Hendon and Oldhonda.com.
I wound up having to purchase- and return- two stators that arrived but would not fit the bike. I found out in the interim that Jincheng had gone out of business. Of course, Brad did not inform me of this or offer to help in any way in finding me an alternative.
Having finally had enough of Brad and his total disinterest in helping a customer- his customer- I wrote a letter to him, which I posted on a couple of CT70 sites, describing my experiences with Brad in great detail. Brad immediately wrote back to me, apologizing profusely for what had happened, and offering to help me find the stator. Being a trusting soul, and because he sounded so sincere,- I responded that I’d take down the messages, and give him the chance to help me.
Brad, in the three months since I got his apology, has done absolutely nothing to help. He said he’d call and look around, and maybe he did, but he did not keep me in the loop, or stay in contact with me or anything like that. When I finally sent an exasperated message to him, reminding him he said he’d help me, he responded
"I promised to let you know if I locate one from one of my sources. I have
not located one as of right now."
That was it; nothing else. In other words, I could sit and wait till the next ice age. If he happened to find one, he’d let me know. I never heard from him again. I have not gotten a single message from him, not a phone call, nothing.
Realizing- at long last- that I could expect nothing from this man, I finally, after 10 months of trying, located a stator, which my mechanic installed, and the bike is now operable again. How is it that I- who have only the barest knowledge of min-bikes, was able to locate the stator, while Brad, who runs a dealership and presumably is an expert in these bikes- couldn’t find one with a reasonable effort? The answer is obvious: he wasn’t willing to expend the least effort in trying to help me out.
Since when does a dealer sell you a bike and then ignore you when a needed part requires a little effort to locate? Isn't that what a reputable dealer does? Isn’t that how they stay in business? Apparently this doesn’t apply to Oldhonda.com. I can certainly understand if a part is out of stock, or difficult to locate, or if the company went out of business, or whatever. Things happen. But what I would expect from a dealer- especially the dealer who sold me the bike- is something like this: "Mr. Nitikman, sorry it’s taking so long. I will make some calls this morning and get right back to you." And then do it. And then "Mr. Nitikman, I am going to research this and find you a stator, and I will keep you posted how it’s going. Don’t worry; I will do everything in my power to help you get running again."
I am posting this message on any and all CT70 forums I can find, so that the community can be aware of the problems I had and avoid doing business with Brad Hendon.
I would like to weigh in on this one, having had my own experience with it...
I had a Jincheng Panda Trail Rider, which I purchased in 2001 before the company went out of business. I have had LOTS of problems with it, but I will say that when it is running, it runs great and is a lot of fun. However...and this is a big "however"...you are taking a big risk in purchasing one of these, for the simple reason that they are decidedly non-standard, parts are often difficult to find, and you will find that many mechanics and shops will refuse to work on them.
One Honda shop I took it to did what I asked, but then said "don't bring it back. It's too much of a pain." Tthe shop I go to now, the mechanic is willing to work on it, because he's a nice guy, but he hates it. For example, the wiring is diffierent, especially in the the color-coding, so that what would normally be a simple job becomes a long drawn-out process. Plus, except for tires and mirrors and the most basic interchangable items, etc, it can be impossible to find parts. The simplest jobs, that he does every day of the week, become a big deal.
(My problems were compounded by purchasing it from Brad at Oldhonda.com, who offered very poor service. Below, see the letter which I'm going to post on any Honda mini-trail sites I can find.)
I am aware that some of the dealers who specialize in Chinese bikes DO provide service (Powerbikes.com, for one. Good, ethical people. And Retrobikes.com actually goes to China and works with the manufacturers to insure quality consistency.) But I repeat: it can be risky.
Me, I went and got a 1971 CT70 n ebay and I love it.
Letter re: Brad Hendon and Oldhonda.com
I would like the CT70 community to know about Brad Hendon, a dealer in Texas who runs a business called Oldhonda.com. In the past several years I have had ample opportunities to form a judgment about his business ethics and commitment to service.
In 2002, I purchased a 2001 Jincheng Panda Trail Rider, which is one of the myriad Honda CT70 clones. I did now know it was a Chinese bike until it arrived, not having any experience at all in this area; I just wanted a "Minitrail 70," and it seemed like a chance to get a new one.
Nonetheless, I enjoyed riding the bike for a few months, until it stopped working. I needed a part. I informed Brad of this, and promptly, only four months later, I received the part. Four months. I was grounded for a third of the year, waiting for a simple part.
During that time I phoned or emailed him several times, asking him simply when I could expect the part to arrive. I was polite as can be. I got nothing back, until finally he sent me an irritable message stating "I ordered it. what do you want me to do?" As a result of this, the Honda dealership told me never to bring the bike back; they were disgusted and irritated at the lengthy wait for a part, which was supposed to arrive ‘any day now.’
Over the years, I ordered other parts. Brad was sometimes helpful, and if the part was in stock, it would arrive in a timely manner. But anything requiring any extra effort to locate, I would have to pester Brad to get him even to respond to me.
Early in 2005, the bike would no longer start. I was told by my local Honda mechanic that I needed a stator.
After contacting Brad, who said he’d order it for me, I waited two months for the part, and again I couldn't get him to return an email or phone call. He said he was trying to order one for me, but I couldn't pin him down on it and find out if it was going to arrive or not.
Finally, I gave up and decided that if I ever wanted to ride this bike again I’d better locate a stator on my own. Understand: I am not an experienced rider or mechanic. I didn’t grow up around bikes. I didn’t know anything about stators or anything else. I needed to rely on my dealer to help me out on this, and I got nothing.
After weeks of my own research, I thought I'd found a stator, and emailed him to ask if I should go with that one or wait for his. He sent me the following response: "Get it from them. I don't have one in stock."
That is the level of service one can expect from Brad Hendon and Oldhonda.com.
I wound up having to purchase- and return- two stators that arrived but would not fit the bike. I found out in the interim that Jincheng had gone out of business. Of course, Brad did not inform me of this or offer to help in any way in finding me an alternative.
Having finally had enough of Brad and his total disinterest in helping a customer- his customer- I wrote a letter to him, which I posted on a couple of CT70 sites, describing my experiences with Brad in great detail. Brad immediately wrote back to me, apologizing profusely for what had happened, and offering to help me find the stator. Being a trusting soul, and because he sounded so sincere,- I responded that I’d take down the messages, and give him the chance to help me.
Brad, in the three months since I got his apology, has done absolutely nothing to help. He said he’d call and look around, and maybe he did, but he did not keep me in the loop, or stay in contact with me or anything like that. When I finally sent an exasperated message to him, reminding him he said he’d help me, he responded
"I promised to let you know if I locate one from one of my sources. I have
not located one as of right now."
That was it; nothing else. In other words, I could sit and wait till the next ice age. If he happened to find one, he’d let me know. I never heard from him again. I have not gotten a single message from him, not a phone call, nothing.
Realizing- at long last- that I could expect nothing from this man, I finally, after 10 months of trying, located a stator, which my mechanic installed, and the bike is now operable again. How is it that I- who have only the barest knowledge of min-bikes, was able to locate the stator, while Brad, who runs a dealership and presumably is an expert in these bikes- couldn’t find one with a reasonable effort? The answer is obvious: he wasn’t willing to expend the least effort in trying to help me out.
Since when does a dealer sell you a bike and then ignore you when a needed part requires a little effort to locate? Isn't that what a reputable dealer does? Isn’t that how they stay in business? Apparently this doesn’t apply to Oldhonda.com. I can certainly understand if a part is out of stock, or difficult to locate, or if the company went out of business, or whatever. Things happen. But what I would expect from a dealer- especially the dealer who sold me the bike- is something like this: "Mr. Nitikman, sorry it’s taking so long. I will make some calls this morning and get right back to you." And then do it. And then "Mr. Nitikman, I am going to research this and find you a stator, and I will keep you posted how it’s going. Don’t worry; I will do everything in my power to help you get running again."
I am posting this message on any and all CT70 forums I can find, so that the community can be aware of the problems I had and avoid doing business with Brad Hendon.
Billy Goat Mini Bikes
Anybody have any experience with these, Look really nice thinking about ordering one next week.
Ron
ST 125 Billy Goat
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=main>
Trail style Mini bikes With 125cc!
Anybody have any experience with these, Look really nice thinking about ordering one next week.
Ron
ST 125 Billy Goat
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=main>
Trail style Mini bikes With 125cc!
Electric Start!
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>125cc Jialing-Honda Motors Co. Engine!
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This is typical of what I've seen and experienced over the past 6 years, or so, since the PRC bikes first appeared. The intial runs of them were real turds, but that seemed to improve until a couple years ago when price became the top priority. Niggling minor parts failures and lack of parts support have always been the norm. But what the hey...with bikes, it's a "roll your own" world, right? What you've described matches, to a "T" what has already happened in Europe. Mostly, riders there simply accept the fact that pieces will fail & need to be replaced over time until they have a mostly custom bike built from top quality parts. They chuckle about absurdities like odometers that suddenly "reset" themselves while idling at a traffic light. Retrofitting repros is/was a way of easing into a nice, dependable, bike. However, as retail prices for PRC-made bikes have collapsed over the past couple of years, there are more and more disasters. It really seemed to reach critical mass last year. Now, I'm hearing about things like hub/bearing failures, electrical burnouts and mulitple engine failures in a single season as every fly-by-night seller floods ebay with cheaper and cheaper product, claiming some non-existent link with Honda. As I've mentioned previously, repop bikes are a crapshoot anymore; which are the good ones? There's no such thing as a free lunch, even if it's imported from PRC.
The wiring issue is comical. The electrical systems of even the newest bikes are dead-simple and much of the color-coding is the same as 12v Honda. The battery connections and lighting are easy to trace. That only leaves the CDI and regulator. Regulators are 4-wire, two of which are battery+ and ground -. The CDI connections can be traced backward this way as well; the lighting and ignition primary coils, plus ground lead can all be traced, leaving the CDI trigger signal. That only leaves the neutral indicator light lead. Of course, the dealership doesn't want to be bothered with any repair which requires thinking and I'm sure they're (justifiably) none-too-thrilled about seeing a cheap knockoff come through the door. The best defense, if you don't know what you're doing, is to insist on receiving a wiring diagram from the seller. I've found the local Honda mega-dealer to be next to useless
, even when parts are available for genuine Hondas. The main dealership product is financing and mechanics are mainly parts replacers, same as anywhere else. Fortunately, there are lots of sources for Honda parts. But that's another story...In the end, you get no more than you pay for; less if you're not careful. I'm in agreement with you. For me, it's Honda or high-quality Japanese aftermarket when it comes to these bikes. If I were a kid on a tight budget, I might view things differently. Still, it comes down to "let the buyer beware" and it's the gap between the truth and the hype that's at issue. I have no problem with an honest seller. For the other type, it's good to be warned.
TrailPunisher
Member
People ask me all the time about my bikes and I tell them if you are not a mechanic dont bother to buy one.
I love mine, I understand how they work, and they are a great value to me, and I enjoy thrashing on them.
These clone bikes are not for the majority of people out there who want to just buy and ride, it does take some mechanical know how and understanding.
I also like having all the different engine sizes now available and the 4 speed manual clutch engines, and for so cheap. They interchange with genunine Honda CRF 50 and 70 bikes. If I ever blow one up, has not happened yet, I know I can get another complete engine/transmission assembly installed in a bike in around an hour and Ill be riding again!
You get what You Pay For! -This is whats forgotten about these cheap bikes when I hear peoples complaints. Research your purchase and the seller Before making it, not after.
I love mine, I understand how they work, and they are a great value to me, and I enjoy thrashing on them.
These clone bikes are not for the majority of people out there who want to just buy and ride, it does take some mechanical know how and understanding.
I also like having all the different engine sizes now available and the 4 speed manual clutch engines, and for so cheap. They interchange with genunine Honda CRF 50 and 70 bikes. If I ever blow one up, has not happened yet, I know I can get another complete engine/transmission assembly installed in a bike in around an hour and Ill be riding again!
You get what You Pay For! -This is whats forgotten about these cheap bikes when I hear peoples complaints. Research your purchase and the seller Before making it, not after.
Has anyone heard of Retrobikes.com? I am new to this site so I don't know if a lot of people have purchased their "clones" from them. I considered them before settling on a 90cc clone from Capital Motor Bikes in Pataskala, Ohio, and another one from 1trail.com. The Retrobikes.com look like quality bikes but they are double in price.
I just started looking for a clone too. I exchanged some email with Retrobikes then came accross Capital Motorbikes, from the pictures on the web site the bikes look to be the same. The Capital bikes look to be less expensive though. Is there something that you didn't like about Capital Motorbikes? -Ed
Capital Motorbikes has done me very well. I purchased a Redcat Trail 90 clone from them in August 2005 and they have been very good to me. I purchased another clone from 1trail.com which was the exact same bike only $300.00 cheaper, however, I had a little setting up to do once I got it. I never could get that one running very well and decided to take it to Capital Motorbikes where I bought my other one. Even though I didn't buy the second one there, they fixed it for under $80.00. Now, it runs great.
The person who owns it has a huge collection of vintage honda minibikes and scooters, so he loves what he does. Shane, the young man who runs the floor and works on the bikes, is excellent as well. I would purchase another bike from them in a heart beat.
Good luck in finding your clone. If you go with Capital, I hope you have as good experience as I had.
The person who owns it has a huge collection of vintage honda minibikes and scooters, so he loves what he does. Shane, the young man who runs the floor and works on the bikes, is excellent as well. I would purchase another bike from them in a heart beat.
Good luck in finding your clone. If you go with Capital, I hope you have as good experience as I had.
I did find out from Capital that their replicas come with a title. I was looking to get plates so I could put it on the road. Retrobikes CT's do not come with titles. I found out that in the state of Illinois that it would be next to impossible to ever get plates for a bike that did not come with a title. Thanks for the reply. -Ed
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