Adam-NLV
Well-Known Member
There ya go, give that to the customers; not to me though, I just don't agree.
I'd stick to OEM recommendations. Modifying engine starter circuitry, now that could cause a fire.
C70 electric starter issue (1980)
- Thread starter jdeere_man
- Start date
I'd stick to OEM recommendations. Modifying engine starter circuitry, now that could cause a fire.
Adam-NLV
Well-Known Member
Thank you, but Could you just post a picture of it and some electrical info on the circuit?
I think everyone would be interested in that, i can't find any info on line about a Starterino booster relay. Take a pic and share with the class.:6: I mean you claim to have 'the cure'. let's see it and not by snail mail dude.:68:
NO MORE EXCUSES!
That says it fits. Are you assuming that it also means these models have the same electrical systems?...which was the question asked in #17.
By that logic, this battery is a bigger fire risk than adding a relay. There were no batteries this size with this charge capacity...the technology was decades in the future. OEM recommendation is the same battery type & ah rating as the factory-installed battery.Adam-NLV said:
Adam-NLV
Well-Known Member
Yes Bob, when it says it fits it doesn't just mean physically, it means electrically too.:3: It's not an assumption, its a fact.
They share the same electrical systems principles in lighting, points & HV coil spark. The bikes with lights use the balanced system to regulate. The six volt bikes all work similar in principle.
There is no fire risk unless the battery blows up and that never happens on a motorcycle, I've never heard of it have you?
Anyway the inline fuse would open before anything explodes.
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BTW, have you ever seen this 'booster relay or do you have a link to it?....... I think it could be a red herring. :44:
A more efficient relay would be easy to take a picture of and it would have a part number!!!
. I don't see all the need to be so secret about it unless it's just all bull shit. Then I see why there no pics of the StartaRINO maybe its all in yourt IMAGINATIO-RinO!!:10:
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Actually, Adam, some of the six volt bikes were full-wave DC...and those came fitted with far better electrical systems. AFAIK, HD electrics are more like scaled-down automotive. Under those scenarios, I'd have more confidenceAnd, yes, I have heard of someone with a battery fire in a Dax. No one was injured, the actual damage to the bike was cosmetic, though a complete repaint is a bit of work.:13: The details were sketchy, for my liking, on that one too. Dunno what specific flavor of lithium tech was involved. It's the kind of thing that makes inquiring minds go "hmmmmmm?" :39: At this late, in this corporate era, I don't trust easily, call it OG privilege.
This battery could be an ultimate solution for the stated problem...might be able to straighten out the hunchback of Notre Dame, too. I'd want more detailed info first.
As for the starter relay mentioned, I'd like to see a photo, too. But, give the man a chance before heating the tar :52:
Starter relays are cheap and generic enough, for anyone who's really motivated, has a modicum of wiring skill and a maybe a sawbuck worth of coins under the sofa cushions.
This battery could be an ultimate solution for the stated problem...might be able to straighten out the hunchback of Notre Dame, too. I'd want more detailed info first.
As for the starter relay mentioned, I'd like to see a photo, too. But, give the man a chance before heating the tar :52:
Starter relays are cheap and generic enough, for anyone who's really motivated, has a modicum of wiring skill and a maybe a sawbuck worth of coins under the sofa cushions.
Adam-NLV
Well-Known Member
No tar & feathers... lol, I just want to see 'the cure' for the Cub starter problems with the six volt battery issue.
If a more efficient six volt starter relay is invented, that could be a helpful innovation in the mini bike world, don'y ya think?
It could be just an idea that he's still working on, he has some good ideas....
BTW: I'm not trying to be-little anyone's work, just please don't make a statement that can't be verified. Please show some type O circuitry...
Sometimes things can get exaggerated and I understand that but if that's what happened ; no big deal.
In the Tech Area of LilHonda, I would appreciate it if statements can be backed up with proof, fact and technical data not just talk.
Exaggerated claims belongs in the Gastank section.:3: I'm not trying to be rude to anyone.
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Adam-NLV
Well-Known Member
if he has two 'products' and one that he can send in the mail to me, why can't he take a picture and post it up on the forum tonight? Why would he not post a pic....
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kirrbby
Well-Known Member
I don't know why. I just think you have gone on a terror...and you might feel better tomorrow...or maybe Monday.
jdeere_man
New Member
Well this has got quite interesting in my absence. I am awaiting some parts of my own to try before I take further action on this matter.
Regardless the first reply from JPardue was spot on with what the problem is with these.
I have my own idea how to fix it, but I don't want to comment until I test.
Regardless the first reply from JPardue was spot on with what the problem is with these.
I have my own idea how to fix it, but I don't want to comment until I test.
jdeere_man
New Member
Ok, i hope I am not reinventing the wheel here, but here is what I did to fix the issue.
First understand the issue. The starter relay gets a constant 6v positive with the key on. With the transmission in neutral, pressing the starter button completes the ground circuit, hopefully engaging the starter.
What I observed with an ohm meter this circuit still has a lot of resistance when completed. (A poor ground).
What I did was get a 6 volt relay from amazon.
I also recommend a relay wiring harness for installation. Any "bosch style" harness should work. Alternatively you can use female spade connectors, but the harness is just easier I think, especially with the existing lack wire length you are dealing with here.
Tap 86 (Yellow in my harness) into the keyed positive line the starter relay is on. Be sure to leave the starter relay also connected.
Disconnect starter relay ground, connect new relay in its place, 85, red in my case.
Connect starter relay wire removed above to 30, black in my case
Put a ring on 87, blue in my case, to connect to the ground of the battery or chassis.
Tape off 87a, white to prevent it from grounding.
So the starter button now completes circuit to new relay, triggering it, which completes a good ground from the battery to the starter relay through the blue/black relay 87/30 allowing the starter relay to engage.
quick drawing.
First understand the issue. The starter relay gets a constant 6v positive with the key on. With the transmission in neutral, pressing the starter button completes the ground circuit, hopefully engaging the starter.
What I observed with an ohm meter this circuit still has a lot of resistance when completed. (A poor ground).
What I did was get a 6 volt relay from amazon.
I also recommend a relay wiring harness for installation. Any "bosch style" harness should work. Alternatively you can use female spade connectors, but the harness is just easier I think, especially with the existing lack wire length you are dealing with here.
Tap 86 (Yellow in my harness) into the keyed positive line the starter relay is on. Be sure to leave the starter relay also connected.
Disconnect starter relay ground, connect new relay in its place, 85, red in my case.
Connect starter relay wire removed above to 30, black in my case
Put a ring on 87, blue in my case, to connect to the ground of the battery or chassis.
Tape off 87a, white to prevent it from grounding.
So the starter button now completes circuit to new relay, triggering it, which completes a good ground from the battery to the starter relay through the blue/black relay 87/30 allowing the starter relay to engage.
quick drawing.
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waltinbatonrouge
Member
oh, oh..hI lil'honda, 'sup kirrbby, I'm baaaack...finished the little CT70, owner was thrilled,
Got another call about one of these with the infamous no electric start issue and hopefully withOUT
the starterino/ relay voltage drop kerfuffle..that was an interesting read.....
well i'll peek at it in a few days and chat back wit youse guys if youse feel like it..
walt
Got another call about one of these with the infamous no electric start issue and hopefully withOUT
the starterino/ relay voltage drop kerfuffle..that was an interesting read.....
well i'll peek at it in a few days and chat back wit youse guys if youse feel like it..
walt
Attachments
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waltinbatonrouge
Member
I'm baaaack again!
ok, lets see...battery fully charged..... hot battery directly to solenoid..solenoid clicks so......its good...hmmm.....
checked the available voltage at the black and yellow/red wires to the solenoid when you press the start switch, 3.4vdc. huh??
then the black wire to frame ground..yup exactly battery voltage so...
its dropping about 3vdc via a high resistance junction on the ground side someplace..
decided to look at the source of the ground to the circuit first.... its through the neutral switch..
even though enough current flows to light the neutral light?? hmmmm again
... i removed the engine rear side cover and jumped the switch to a good ground.
electric start works..yippeeeee!!!
i removed the screw/clamp that holds the switch in, switch fell apart..
clip lead the switch wire to engine ground...press start button bike cranks/starts
will order new neutral switch..
just an aside.. on this bike the ground side of the crank circuit is very simple..only 3 bullet style connections between the ground switch, neutral light, and solenoid...so why not just fix the ground issue/voltage drop rather than wiring around it with the starterino idea? sure you can, but why?
have a great evening....
walt
ok, lets see...battery fully charged..... hot battery directly to solenoid..solenoid clicks so......its good...hmmm.....
checked the available voltage at the black and yellow/red wires to the solenoid when you press the start switch, 3.4vdc. huh??
then the black wire to frame ground..yup exactly battery voltage so...
its dropping about 3vdc via a high resistance junction on the ground side someplace..
decided to look at the source of the ground to the circuit first.... its through the neutral switch..
even though enough current flows to light the neutral light?? hmmmm again
... i removed the engine rear side cover and jumped the switch to a good ground.
electric start works..yippeeeee!!!
i removed the screw/clamp that holds the switch in, switch fell apart..
clip lead the switch wire to engine ground...press start button bike cranks/starts
will order new neutral switch..
just an aside.. on this bike the ground side of the crank circuit is very simple..only 3 bullet style connections between the ground switch, neutral light, and solenoid...so why not just fix the ground issue/voltage drop rather than wiring around it with the starterino idea? sure you can, but why?
have a great evening....
walt
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whereshaldo
Member
I just want to make sure I'm thinking this through correctly before I start cutting wires. I have attached a photo of my relay for reference.
You wrote:
"Tap 86 (Yellow in my harness) into the keyed positive line the starter relay is on. Be sure to leave the starter relay also connected."
Looking at the wiring diagram, I want to confirm this is the fused red wire that attaches underneath the big wire that goes to the battery. Is there any reason I can't just put a ring terminal on 86 and connect it directly to the relay?
"Disconnect starter relay ground, connect new relay in its place, 85, red in my case."
I am assuming this is the black wire soldered on the bottom of the relay? In the drawing it shows the yellow/red wire going to 85. But I just unplug from the harness and then connect to the relay correct?
"Connect starter relay wire removed above to 30, black in my case"
This is the yellow/red wire soldered to the bottom of the relay? This goes to 30, or does it not matter as long as one of the ground wires goes to 85 and one to 30? So again, I unplug the yellow/red wire from the harness and connect to the relay?
UPDATE 1: I've though more about this and I think I've got one bit wrong. I think the yellow red wire from the switch connects to 30 on the relay and then the yellow/red wire from the starter connects to 85 on the relay.
"Put a ring on 87, blue in my case, to connect to the ground of the battery or chassis."
THIS I do understand.
I added a slightly revised wiring diagram that I hope is correct.
Thanks for the patience.
Hal
You wrote:
"Tap 86 (Yellow in my harness) into the keyed positive line the starter relay is on. Be sure to leave the starter relay also connected."
Looking at the wiring diagram, I want to confirm this is the fused red wire that attaches underneath the big wire that goes to the battery. Is there any reason I can't just put a ring terminal on 86 and connect it directly to the relay?
"Disconnect starter relay ground, connect new relay in its place, 85, red in my case."
I am assuming this is the black wire soldered on the bottom of the relay? In the drawing it shows the yellow/red wire going to 85. But I just unplug from the harness and then connect to the relay correct?
"Connect starter relay wire removed above to 30, black in my case"
This is the yellow/red wire soldered to the bottom of the relay? This goes to 30, or does it not matter as long as one of the ground wires goes to 85 and one to 30? So again, I unplug the yellow/red wire from the harness and connect to the relay?
UPDATE 1: I've though more about this and I think I've got one bit wrong. I think the yellow red wire from the switch connects to 30 on the relay and then the yellow/red wire from the starter connects to 85 on the relay.
"Put a ring on 87, blue in my case, to connect to the ground of the battery or chassis."
THIS I do understand.
I added a slightly revised wiring diagram that I hope is correct.
Thanks for the patience.
Hal
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