Clone to Honda conversion

Discussion in 'Projects/Builds' started by Deoodles, Jul 5, 2016.

  1. Deoodles

    Deoodles Active Member

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    I am starting this post to keep this conversion in one place. My plan is to convert my 2012 Skyteam 125
     

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  3. Deoodles

    Deoodles Active Member

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    Here is the plan Move all components possible to the 93 frame and title and insure it as a Honda. The clone has a lot of mods. It is a Honda motor with a TB 108 stroker build. The clone is 45 lbs heavier than a CT70 so it will top out around 60 to 62 mph. I have a VM20 with an air box mod and fuel valve mod, a Gcraft oil cooler ans a super stealth exhaust. It has aftermarket tail light assembly, signals, seat, motor guard, and 400x10 rims. The speedometer in the bucket is from a S90 and is accurate. I want to use the clone 12 volt electrical system, locks and keys, the front end with disk brake, the rear swing arm, and shocks. I spent some time tonight dry fitting the major components for fit.
    The clone has tapered steering bearings. I removed the races and installed the front end on the 93 with the tapered bearings. It fits well but I will need to install an old style KO-K4 steering stop. The front end I have does not touch the 93 version anywhere. The shocks and swing arm were bolt on exact fit. I am going to need some help identifying parts that will fit the 93 frame and will end up posting wtb a few times I am sure. Once I know I can assemble it properly I will have it painted. Not sure about color yet.

    Clone.jpg
    future 93.jpg
     
  4. Deoodles

    Deoodles Active Member

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    Help and parts needed so far:

    I need a metal gas tank, will any year fit in the frame? or Tb 2.4Ltr possibly, anyone know?
    I need a battery holder. I suspect this is frame specific for these late models. Does anyone have one or know what I can use?
    I could use the mounting brackets for the CDI,Flasher,Regulator. The clone has its own style. I could make it work but if the correct one is available it just makes sense.
    I will need a steering stop as well.
    The Clone is about an inch and a half wider in the frame at the seat. The seat locking posts are too wide to fit this frame. The seat lock was an exact fit as well as the rubber grommet on the other side. Fortunately the seat has the correct stamped holes to move the posts in for a great fit, unfortunately I will have to remove the seat cover to add nuts to be able to tighten the posts to the pan. Looks like this project wont be too difficult now that I have identified what mods and parts are needed and what fits. I do wonder what the hole in the left side of the frame is for. It is just below the indent where the ct70 stickers go, and what the two holes on the other side are; Coil maybe?
     
    #3 Deoodles, Jul 5, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2016
  5. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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    Those extra holes might be all for the smog stuff? Not sure. You could probably figure it out by looking at parts diagrams.
    Metal tank is standard k1 up and I think the tank bracket is too...as long as it's for a metal tank, not plastic.

    4fcaa144e0d9e21b301b15c600738b93.jpg 9f27e6b04390a6140d8a2775946551a1.jpg 9c737d6dda6c1f9aa521623058e20422.jpg
     
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  6. Deoodles

    Deoodles Active Member

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    I spent some time looking and thinking about this swap. Can anyone shed some light on the VIN sticker. It doesn't look like it can be removed in one piece| Can it? If I blast the frame and paint I would have to remove it. Can it be done? Has anyone found a replacement for this sticker? What are my options if any.
     
  7. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    VIN tags can be removed, unscathed, but it's tricky. First step is extracting the drive screws, mistakenly referred to as "rivets". Centerpunch them and rill them using a tiny drill bit, plus a surgeon's touch. Get it right and you'll pop the heads off without touching anything else; the shanks can then be pressed out. Some careful heating to soften the adhesive will allow careful removal of the tag; you'll have to come up with your own method. Some have said to use fishing line. Work slowly and carefully, the tag is thick foil.

    There are a couple of feebay vendors, located in Europe, who make reproduction VIN tags. Unless your original is damaged, I'd reuse it. Dratv sells the drive screws and any automoative paint supply will have two-sided emblem tape.
     
  8. Deoodles

    Deoodles Active Member

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    Thanks, Your method is spot on for early models. The later years Have a VIN sticker on the left side of the steering head. It is similar to the year/month sticker on your cars license plate. I cant be the first to come across this issue.
     
  9. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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    I have info for you. I'll send a PM.
     
  10. Deoodles

    Deoodles Active Member

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    I have been exploring options for painting this project. It will be a daily rider and not a queen. It will end up needing a bath and full of bugs more often than not. I can spray the yellow that the clone was but I really prefer a candy red or blue. The red option is something I am willing to try but have low confidence in my abilities. The next option is send it to a painter and wait to get it back. Easiest and most expensive. Last is a candy Blue done in a local powder coat shop. I am leaning toward this and would like to be talked out of it here. They will shoot a silver base then candy Blue. They said repairs to the frame can be done with a product called"Lab Metal" google it to see what it is. That's it. Any opinions???
     
  11. Deoodles

    Deoodles Active Member

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    Before I commit to power coating I had to secure a new VIN tag. I think I have that worked out. In the mean time I have been working on the frame. I hammered out the few small dents and filed then progressively sanded the areas. I sprayed gloss black on the areas I worked on to see what they will look like without body filler. I am happy with them. It took some time but was worth it. Looks like this frame is a good candidate for candy blue powder. I am going to wait until I have the vin sticker in hand and Vermont issues a tag before I do anything else.
     
  12. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    Been a while since I've paid any attention to the EPA-compliance tag. Dunno that it's really necessary, this bike is about as far away from purist-correct as it gets. If it's just a decal, then careful, gradual, application of heat should soften the adhesive enough to go to work using a single-edged-blade and a surgeon's touch.

    Yes, I know of "Lab Metal"...umm, no thanks, Alex. It's claim to fame is being the only filler that will withstand the 390-450F curing heat of most powders. PC is over-promoted. True enough, it's tough, it's cheap and paint prices are skyrocketing, thanks to corporate greed. In the right applications, it is the best coating. Sheetmetal bodywork isn't among them. If it were, cars would be PCd and the manufacturers would rake-in gigabucks just from the EPA compliance costs associated with painting.

    I've seen a number of CT70 frames done in PC. Most were instantly recognizable, nowhere near the finish quality of decent paint. A few have been okay. Most have had shockingly bad bodywork and without really good prep, no finish will look good. Lack of prep options aside, the deal-breaker, imo, is that it's a one-and-done proposition. Best of everything, if it ever gets damaged, how are you going to repair it? Touch-up? Highly unlikely...with a candy color, fugheddaboudit. PC removal from sheetmetal is a nightmare. I've yet to see this done successfully from a CT70 frame, for multiple reasons.

    Sounds to me like you're thinking in practical terms. Realistically, an offroad bike is going to pick up some battle scars along the way...just part of the deal. That's where paint becomes the practical option...it can be stripped & redone, easily, multiple times, if necessary. Depending upon the color selected, touch-ups are possible. Given a choice between PC and all that it entails, I'd choose a conventional paint color...solid, metallic, or near-candy. That's where I started, with DuPont "Chroma red", urethane. Good thing, too. A week after putting the bike on the road, the chain broke, resulting in long scars on the swingarm. The spot repair was easy and the color blended perfectly. The look was close to candy, only really noticeable when next to a true candy red. In practical terms, a small sacrifice compared to being stuck with permanent chain rash. Five years later, the RH upper shock mount snapped off (long story); had the frame been PCd, I'd have scrapped it.

    IMO, you'd be better off doing the prepwork right, then using rattlecan paint. $100 buys a LOT of rattlecans. Duplicolor has some serious candy-like colors in their catalog, if you've just gotta have the look. Since they're non-catalyzed, there's no isocyanates to worry about and you can sand & respray if need be. For that matter, a custom shop won't charge all that much to just shoot color...if you're supplying a fully-prepped frame. Word has it that the Duplicolor ("metalcast") system can be cleared with catalyze urethane top coat.

    Your opinion may differ. That said, I'm offering an opinion based on long-term, high-mileage (22,000 & counting) experience. I understand the cover-story appeal of PC...along with the undesirable aspects buried on page 96.
     
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  13. Deoodles

    Deoodles Active Member

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    vin.jpg

    Is that what this is? I wanted it to avoid issues if I were to get pulled over. I thought it was the VIN sticker.

    Thanks for pointing out the fine print on page 69. Also, powder coating here in the south isn't cheap. The quote broke down like this
    $80 for sandblasting
    $80 for the silver coat
    $80 for the candy blue coat
    140 for 5 lbs of the blue. ( its the smallest amount they can order and I get to keep the left overs.
    Add tax and we are talking $400.

    Not much more to have someone who cares about how it turns out to do it. and yup $100 bucks buys a lot of spray cans. I am back on the fence. Thats what I asked for so thanks.
     
  14. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    That IS the VIN tag and you do want to preserve it. I don't know of anyone repopping that style, so take the time to do this right, no second chances if you ruin it.

    And, yes, you got my point about PC. It's not about resisting change, or being a "hater". It IS about pairing the right process with the parts involved.

    FYI, $80 to media blast a frame is really cheap, if it's done right. That's where things can get a little murky. A commercial blasting outfit can take a CT70 frame to clean, "white" metal in less than 5 minutes. You absolutely do not want that. The process is too aggressive; you'll lose solid metal and the surface will be heavily profiled...so rough you'll be tempted to sand the bare steel to a smoother state before priming. On a good, dry, day and with a reasonably clean frame, a thorough job, using low pressure, a small gun and glass bead media, it takes about 3 hours to get one of these done. Most of that is spent going back over small details. There are more recesses that defy media blasting than one realizes...until the final exam, school of hard knocks.:21: And, if there's even the slightest hint of of a doubt, I do believe that prep is the single most important component of refinishing.

    If I may make a tough suggestion, think this over and come up with a clear goal. That will mean stating a top priority and I think that'll give you an answer. IMV, it's down to a choice between serviceability (i.e. if the paint can be touched-up, as needed) and specific color (you mentioned candy blue). How much "patina" & battle scars did the bike accumulate and over how many years & miles? It's likely to happen again...same bike, same circumstances, same outcome. Would that be acceptable to you?

    Considering the basic, minimum, cost of fielding a reasonably competent road bike circa 2016, $300-500 isn't all that much when it comes to the engine, suspension and appearance, maybe 10%. IMHO, it doesn't make any sense to hamstring yourself over that amount. Just as the driveline and suspension comprise ~90% of the riding experience, the frameset tins & wheel assemblies have roughly the same weight, aesthetically. The frame is probably 2/3 of that. HTH
     
  15. OLD CT

    OLD CT Well-Known Member

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    There are a few painters on this board.
    Not in any particular order. ''Mrichard'' Mike and ''bc17'' Todd. ''Red69'' Bob.
     
  16. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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    If you decide on yellow latex, I'm your guy :)
     
  17. OLD CT

    OLD CT Well-Known Member

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    I like the Duplicolor red, I can hardly tell the difference between my paint work and dratv's red shocks.;)
     

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  18. Deoodles

    Deoodles Active Member

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    Lol latex huh, Okay. I am going to go with paint. I fear my painting skills will sux. That said, I will try rattle cans. My thinking is if it comes out as bad as I suspect it will then I can reach out to someone here to fix my handy work no foul. Next I will have to decide between the yellow that it was and the candy that Pat was so successful with. Not as easy a choice as I thought it would be.
     
  19. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    If you choose a single-stage color, either solid or metallic, you'll be able to color sand and polish it after a few weeks. Base/clear, even 3-stage candies, can be colorsanded & polished, too; however, you'd need to apply enough clearcoat to allow leveling-out the surface & polishing without going through the clear. If you do go through the clear you'll quickly go through the color layer, into the primer. With candies, you'll get light spots.
     
  20. Deoodles

    Deoodles Active Member

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    I decided on the candy red. I picked up some primer, the silver, red, and clear. I only got 1 can of each. How many of each are needed. What I really wanted to do was get a feel for how the cans sprayed and to see if I could do this at all. I sprayed a section of the frame to see what I could expect. I primed right over the red and didn't pay attention to prep because I need the frame stripped. It actually came out decent. The cans spray nice and coverage is even. But, as always I now have more questions. After I prime the frame do I sand it? what grit? How long do I wait to spray the silver? Is the silver one coat or several thin coats? if several, how long between coats. How long after I spray silver do I wait to start the red? Red is several coats but how long between coats? 10minutes? let it completely dry? When does the clear get applied and is it one or several coats? These are technique questions but I suspect they matter. Anyone i the mood to take these questions on :)
     
    #20 Deoodles, Jul 15, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2016

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