Clone to Honda conversion

Deoodles

Well-Known Member
One of the problems I had was getting a new vin sticker. Today I got the proof for approval. Remember, this is not a stock CT70. The sticker has to be good but does not have to be an exact copy. Here is the proof under the original. I am pleased with it. Now I can get to the frame prep work.

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69ST

Well-Known Member
I don't mind the explanation but, it's gonna be on the long side...just addressing the basics.

You want the primer to be fully cured/hardened before you begin applying the paint. That can take anywhere from a few hours to a week. I suspect that your airdry/rattlecan paint will be on the shorter end of things, especially in high ambient air temps. If in doubt, give it 3-4 days, see if it smells like paint when you do the final block sanding. The primer should be flat and free of orange peel. Ideally, you lay it on wet enough to flow-out smoothly. Some primers are easy to flow-out, others are almost impossible...a choice between rough surface finish and runs. Final block sanding should be done with 500-600 grit, wet. Anything coarser will leave visible scratches.

Post-sanding, the frame must be dry & dust-free. A good scrubbing with a clean, wet, terrycloth towel should make quick work of the sanding dust. A final sweep, using a tack cloth, just before applying the silver base is ideal.

The silver is applied in thin coats, until you have a uniform application, no thin spots. Likewise, the color goes on in thin, evenly-applied, coats until the desired saturation value is developed. You need really good lighting for this. Work slowly and learn how to apply an even coat. That usually means a 50% overlap pattern, to avoid the old, dreaded, tiger-striping. This is the part of the job that requires flawless application technique. Candy midcoat colors are usually watery-thin and very easy to run. At the same time, you want the paint applied wet enough to flow-out. If it goes on too dry, you'll get orange peel and the finished color will have a mottled appearance. Generally speaking, candy midcoats tend to look dull & lifeless and they're so thin that orange peel is a non-issue.

The clearcoat is where you'll start to see what the final result will look like. Start with a light "scratch coat". This is to seal the color and give the subsequent coats of clear something to grab onto. The second coat (and subsequent coats) of clear should be a full, wet, coat. This is where you want complete flowout. Ideally, you want to take each coat the edge of running, stopping just short of that. With rattlecans, paint mixture, vehicle (solvent) voltatility and spray pattern are all fixed, beyond your control; so, choose your sprayout day based on ambient temp & humidity, for best results. Rattlecans dispense a very small amount amount of material and produce a narrow fan...slow going but just what the inexperienced painter needs. Trading speed of application for control is a good bargain. You want to apply enough clearcoat to allow color sanding & buffing. Sanding thins the paint. Dunno the specifics of this paint system. Might take 3-5 coats of clear to get sufficient thickness to allow heavy color sanding & buffing, without digging into the color. Airdry formula paint is usually on the soft side, easy to sand, using 1500-2500 grit and easy to buff. If you're not up-to-speed with a rotary buffer, use a fine machine compound - by hand. It's slow-going but, you're only doing one bike. One afternoon and aching shoulders is a small enough price for what should be an outstanding result.

As for time between coats, tack-free time, working time, and full curing/hardness/outgassing, you'll have to refer to the manufacturers instruction sheet...and then use your own best judgment. Some airdry formula paints will wrinkle if you get the timing wrong. Most have a time window of an hour, or so; after that, you may have to wait days, or weeks to apply more coats. You should be able to work through a 7 - 9 piece CT70 frameset in 20-30 minutes, tops...that's per coat. Plan on a long sprayout session. Red is usually one of the quicker and more forgiving colors, which means somewhere around 3-4 hours from the first coat of metallic basecoat to the final application of clear. That's as quick as it gets with candies; the really tough ones take up to six hours in the booth.
 

69ST

Well-Known Member
One of the problems I had was getting a new vin sticker. Today I got the proof for approval. Remember, this is not a stock CT70. The sticker has to be good but does not have to be an exact copy. Here is the proof under the original. I am pleased with it. Now I can get to the frame prep work.

View attachment 30266

Maybe it'd make life easier if you removed the word "driven" from "motor driven cycle" :39:
 

Deoodles

Well-Known Member
Frame work progressing. I removed the stop, tubing holder on the lower right,and repaired/straightened the seat latch. I need to source a stop and find a welder next.

In the meantime I bought the 40# sand blaster from Harbor Freight today. I know it will be tight but it was $160 and it is something I have wanted to have. I dont know much about media for one so I am asking here. I have seen walnut shell and glass beads that say 80 grit. are any of these two good to use or is there something more specific I need to find.

Stop.jpgSpring.jpgSeat latch.jpgLatch.jpg
 

Deoodles

Well-Known Member
I dont know much about media for one so I am asking here. I have seen walnut shell and glass beads that say 80 grit. are any of these two good to use or is there something more specific

still hope someone will jump in and answer. I am ready to get glass beads from Harbor Freight. The Blasting cabinet is assembled, the VIN sticker came in todays mail, the new stop is on the way. I still need to find a welder for the stop. I picked up a new battery holder and metal gas tank. its getting close to blasting and painting. I hope I can be done in time for the cooler weather due in about 6 weeks. (work does get in the way).
 

69ST

Well-Known Member
For what you're doing, glass bead media is ideal. Walnut shells won't touch rust, since they're softer than iron oxide. Not sure about the oil residue that they may leave behind, probably not a biggie, just more solvent cleaning to remove it. Glass bead is just aggressive enough to remove paint and rust, without removing any significant amount of solid metal or profiling the surface. It's also virtually failsafe (or idiot-proof, if you prefer a harsher term :19:) once you see clean, "white" metal, move on...perfectly prepared surface. But seriously, you'd have to hold the stream in one place for a long time to remove any significant amount of solid metal. You'd be bored to death before that could happen. Effective & safe, what's not to like?

As for grit size, 80 is good. I've used different sizes, up to about 120; that leaves a somewhat smoother surface...irrelevant for blasting a frameset. It's slower than the coarser grit. And, glass beads break (literally) when they strike a surface, so you're getting a mix of progressively finer abrasive anyway. Glass bead is generally good for three passes through the gun. After that, it's dust and the collector vacuum inhales it right out of the cabinet, suspended in the air stream.
 

Deoodles

Well-Known Member
Checks in the mail to Vermont. I ordered a dust deputy for the sand blast cabinet. I have a shop vac so that's what the setup for the blaster will be. Now I just need to pull all these pieces together and get it painted. I will update Vermont when I have one.

Thanks for the paint tips Bob. I may buy a chain guard or headlight bucket so I have a color reference. I don't have a ruby red anything to use as a comparison guide.
 

Deoodles

Well-Known Member
I found a welding shop that is great to work with, they will be my go to place for metal work. They did what I asked and charged me 5 bucks while I waited. Here is the steering stop installed. If I got this wrong please let me know. Thanks


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Deoodles

Well-Known Member
After looking closely at my K3 I felt like I may not have positioned it correctly. I trimmed it and have a high level of confidence that it's going to be fine. I set up the dust deputy and have the beads loaded. It's going to be pretty tight in there due to the size of the frame but how often will I be doing frames. I may try blasting the frame over the weekend no word yet from Vermont

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kirrbby

Well-Known Member
Your stop looks pretty good to me. If anything it might be a little long, but I don't think that would be a problem at all.
 

Deoodles

Well-Known Member
Thanks Kirrbby. This update is a little off subject. It took 5 hours to blast the frame. It looks good. The Harbor Freight 40# blast cabinet holds a CT70 frame but it really was a challenge to get the frame blasted and I had to finish the ends of the frame with it half in the blaster and the door open. I lost some media but not that much. My compressor is a 25 gallon and could only keep about 60psi. I had to go quite slow and sometimes wait for pressure to build up. It will be great for all the other parts but is a real challenge and a little messy for a frame.

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Deoodles

Well-Known Member
I have the body work done and the frame is primed x2 The body work was glaze in 2 spots, maybe 1 tea spoons worth all told. I know wet 600 is next and will give it a few days. If I go thru the primer back to metal, what is the fix?

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Deoodles

Well-Known Member
I could use some guidance. I thought it would be easier to practice on the chain guard because if I screwed it up I could blast it and do it again. I've never done this before. I did primer twice three coats of silver three coats of red and three coats of clear. I can see that I would need to wet sand the clear but I have to wait 48 hours for that. What I don't know is is this even close and if not maybe some techniques if anyone has any to share. So now I'm hoping that folks here won't mind critiquing what this looks like and no my feelings won't get hurt. I need to know
Thanks

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I layed down one last heavy coat of clear and BOOM it has a glass finish and looks pretty good. I don't know if it is a match but I do like it.
 
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69ST

Well-Known Member
Your media blasting job looks to be quite thorough. Must've been an ordeal, for you and your compressor. 60psi is more than adequate. Biggest problem with blasting is moisture. Pretty much any compressor, except a screw-type, is going to get hot after 20-30 minutes of full-duty-cycle operation. It's tough on the machine and usually makes it near-impossible to maintain dry air, unless the dewpoint is below ~50F. IMO, your setup is good for parts smaller than a frame, compressor & cabinet reasonably well-matched. For a one-off, like this one, you're fine.

If you sand through the primer, exposing bare metal, you'll need to apply more primer to seal the metal.

Can't really comment on the accuracy of your final color value, using small digital photos...too many variables. It looks pretty good on my screen, where the blue was so far off there was no question. The surface looks kinda satiny, from what I can see..like it went on dry. Be careful, that's become a common problem with airdry paints; what's sold as "gloss" can be applied wet enough to cause runs...and still turn out satin, once it dries. If I were thee, I'd colorsand & polish that chainguard. That'll tell you what to expect better than anything, or anyone, else. If additional layers of clearcoat can be applied, days later, without lifting, then you can lightly wetsand and apply a flow coat...which can then be colorsanded & buffed.
 

Deoodles

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the tips Bob. I am having fun with this. I think I will hit it with 2500 wet and buff. If I can get away with 2500 then shoot clear again I will. Either way my expectations have been met. This will be a street rider almost there.

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69ST

Well-Known Member
The frame has more of a raspberry creme appearance in the above photo. For what you're doing, a one-off custom that's going to see plenty of road miles, I'd not worry about the color "originality". There's already...ummm...a few other non-OEM details that might be noticeable:21: Get uniform color application and a nice finish and the bike will look like a very well-done custom.

2500 wet is a good ending point, just before buffing. For flow coat prep, it's on the overkill side. That said, this is soft paint so it might just be the best bet for an inexperienced painter. Be very careful around sharp edges, such as the character line along the tank area. It's dangerously easy to sand right through the paint in these places. Working slowly, patiently & methodically is the best way for a novice painter to achieve a first-rate result...without tears & resprays.
 

Bevelsd

Active Member
The frame has more of a raspberry creme appearance in the above photo. For what you're doing, a one-off custom that's going to see plenty of road miles, I'd not worry about the color

And whats wrong with Raspberry Cream?...My first ride was a Raspberry Cream 1968 Western Flyer that I still own and ride. Long live the raspberry!004.jpg
 

Deoodles

Well-Known Member
Love the flyer as you could probably guess :) I hung my 63 Sears Flightliner on the wall. The color is a true candy red, the photos are terrible. I was out in the garage this morning and I cant decide if it is good enough or if I should hang it up on painting and have someone bail me out.. Ill let the day go by and think about it some more.
 

Deoodles

Well-Known Member
Spent the day blasting. The combo of the paint being maybe a 7 out of 10, and the body work about the same said rookie. I have too much into it to look the other way :(. At this point I have to rethink this.
 
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