cost to build a frame up bike

Discussion in 'Projects/Builds' started by Chadly, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. Chadly

    Chadly Member

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    Very new to the ct's. The bike we bought came with a parts bike. We are getting closer to having the bike where we want it. My son and I keep looking at the parts bike and dreaming. Just curious if we were to do a frame up build using non oem parts what would a build like that cost? We would salvage everything we could off the parts bike. However I would like it to be a pretty bike meaning paint or powder coat everything. Just a guess would be helpful. Picture of parts bike attached. Thank you.
     

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  3. OLD CT

    OLD CT Well-Known Member

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    Powder coating a frame is a bad idea. Especially if the person applying it has never PC'd or painted a CT70 frame in their life. There are a lot of areas that need to be grounded to bare metal. coil, key switch and the taillight. Not a good idea... You can however, powder coat the kickstand/footpeg assy.
    That 1977 non candy color is the perfect color to do a rattle can close match or better yet paint it a different color.

    My guess is $3500.01 from that picture.:LOL:
     
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  4. Chadly

    Chadly Member

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    Thanks. Shows my lack of knowledge on paint and powder coat. $3500 is also more than we were thinking. We might need to just stare and dream for a while longer. LOL!
     
  5. OLD CT

    OLD CT Well-Known Member

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    I may be a little high on my quote though,2500 for non oem and a real honda rebuilt engine might do it.
     
  6. red69

    red69 Well-Known Member

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    I kept track of all the costs for my '69 silver tag. I started with nothing and bought everything, including the matching engine and frame. I used Honda parts wherever possible, new and used. I did all the body and paint work myself. The engine did not need any work, as it was lightly used. Total cost was $3,700. $400 of that was shipping costs.

    20150212_140626.jpg
     
  7. Adam-NLV

    Adam-NLV Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinkin, put a 190cc on it and you can just ride a wheelie everywhere! That eliminates the front wheel need:D All joking aside, that's a canO' worms kind of question. The expenses grow quickly, just ask abot the Honda Nice engines....I would do it the budget way. i have a 1977 and at one point, my plan was to put a 150cc Piranha engine from Tbolt usa and paint the bike using this paint. 100_0202.JPG 100_0204.JPG I researched all different paint brands and this is the best i found....i even painted a swing arm and it came out beautiful for Rattle Can!

    Anyway that was my plan till i got my Honda cmx250.
    Btw, i did see a dude in the city riding a z50 only on the back wheel, no front tire but driving through the city!;)
     
    #6 Adam-NLV, Feb 15, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
  8. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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    Looks to me like you have a lot of parts there. Add a engine and a front wheel, then take it for a ride while you decide what to do next :)

    I say build that thing. Do it now while your son is fired up to help.
    You'll make more money later, but your boy will grow up and...well, maybe turn his interest towards girls, or cars, or whatever. Time never stops, and you can't go back.
     
  9. mark from florida

    mark from florida Active Member

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    Just build up what you have for now.. like Kirby says get it goin and ride that sucker as is. if your son crashes it in its current condition it wont be a big deal.I bought one a few years ago in about same condition. have maybe 600 dollars in it. old Hondas are hard to kill
     
  10. MountainMini

    MountainMini Active Member

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    Love this question!

    First mistake is to open your pocket book, might as well just keep it open :).

    Let’s see, $250 for a bike in bins, $100 for paint, paint supplies and decals, $100 for front fork supplies and missing hardware, and headlight ears, $100 for handlebar switches and handlebar electrical, new grips $100 for new cables, $100 for miscellaneous items like hardware, bulbs, springs, seals, gasket kit, $100 for clutch related items, plates, springs, new machine screws, new lock washer, $100 for new shift drum forks, $100 new tires and tubes, $100 for new seat cover and new foam if you do it yourself, $200 for a new seat if you don’t, $100 at least for new exhaust, $100 for new shocks or more, $100 for miscellaneous electrical, new connectors, wiring etc, $100 for miscellaneous engine parts and supplies, $100 for miscellaneous special tools-flywheel puller, clutch nut tool, JIS bits, hammer impact driver, valve wrenches if you like, chain breaker maybe? $100 for ignition-stator and cam chain stuff, $100 brake related items shoes, levers, springs, pedal, hardware. Think that’s most of it but I probably missed a few things? This is just a best guesstimate based mostly on what I’m doing!

    edit: Oh yeah, $100 for carb and gas tank stuff, carb kit + fuel lines, gas cap seal, gas neck grommet, tank sealer.

    Probably need a few hundred in a contingency/slush fund for other stuff that goes wrong or for “must haves” when you go online shopping.

    Then you’ll have to figure out what you want to do to the top end? Big bore kit? Or what ever? Add that on too.

    Stock up on C notes :)
     
    #9 MountainMini, Feb 15, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
  11. Chadly

    Chadly Member

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    I realize it will be money pit never being able to recover costs. However, one thing I have really enjoyed with these little bikes is it is relatively cheap compared to building other projects. Cant do much on my car for $1000 where as a grand on these bike goes a ways. We've spent about $300 in the last month on main bike and the parts we've bought have been keeping us busy. I will take picture of the main bike later.
     
  12. MountainMini

    MountainMini Active Member

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    Great hobby, and worth every penny! Factor in the enjoyment of building it and spending quality time with your son and actually riding it when it’s done-priceless. Regardless of the direction you take you build.
     
  13. scooter

    scooter Well-Known Member

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    My advice if you’re on a budget would be to sell the extra parts frame etc. on eBay or here on the site and take those funds and buy a decent runner that is all there. Missing parts add up quick IMO better off buying an entire bike. Your son can help strip down what you have and learn about saving for that complete one that is going to come his way. When it finds you and your son, tune it up, fix what is needed hopefully just a little and ride it.
     
  14. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    You've gotten a better bike than you may realize. Right out of the gate, it looks like the RH headlight ear is straight and still wearing the original T/S stalk assembly. If the LH ear is as straight, the set is probably worth about what you paid for the bike...these are "unobtainium" rare parts. If the handlebars & original switch controls are at least restorable, you may have the equivalent of a $500-1000 winning lottery ticket. This is beyond where I'd want to begin the conversation but, I did read the term "money pit". When a bike can be restored back to original, there's a good chance that it will be worth as much, or more than, one has invested into it

    1977 is an unusual model in some ways. Honda was well along in their cost-cutting and had largely de-chromed the CT70. That's huge, chrome plating is now painfully expensive. A pair of fenders, handlebars, top tree and engine guard might cost around $750 to have rechromed, all-in. It's a pile of bucks...still less than half of what it costs to redo all the chrome on a K1-76 model. Chrome parts can be done pretty much whenever you like. `77 handlebars are different than K0-early K3 but, the commonly-available repops will interchange (without the switch units), $125/pair...again, less than half the cost of rechroming. If you're just building a nice rider, the original bars (along with any other restorable original parts) can be "mothballed".

    That solid color paint is a DIYer blessing. Get the framest parts glass bead-blasted, then rattlecan them, using basecoat/clearcoat. It's all in the prep work. As long as your prep is good and paint application reasonably so, good results are more than just possible...a stunning repaint for maybe $200, if you do everything but the media blasting. This also applies to the satin black parts (TL bracket, brake pedal, plug guard, rear signal stalk, etc), a.k.a. "rattlecan chrome"....$10 worth of paint + bead blasting and you're done.

    Looks like the original seat can be redone. The later seat pans were better built and rarely break. The Later models also got far less perishable foam. Repaint the seat pan, install a new cover and you've got a restored original seat for less than the cost of an inexpensive repop.

    Parts & machine work (head rebuild w/valve job, cylinder overbore +honing) needed to do a proper engine rebuild usually come in around the $400 mark. A 52mm bore-up kit (88cc) can be used for about the same cost as an overbore of the original cylinder. Figure another $45 for a master carb rebuild kit.

    A fork rebuild for this model, costs less than $30 for 2 new seals and a quart of fork oil. By 77, the lower fork legs were painted silver...though you could metalfinish & polish them. Restoring the wheel & brake assemblies doesn't require much in the way of parts...it's mostly labor, as with most of the rolling chassis & engine assemblies. The more you can do, the less cash you have to spend. Going mostly DIY, you could shave anywhere from $500-2000 off the figures mentioned above.

    There are 4 basic cost centers with a resto: body/paint, chrome, engine rebuild, "misc/everything else". Putting this into perspective, for your project, a "typical" K0-K3" model will take $800-1200 for body & paint, up to $2K for chrome, $750-1000 for the engine rebuild and $500-1000 for "misc"...that's farming-out everything. As you can see, going DIY-heavy, you should be able to get the rolling chassis beautifully restored for less than $1500, possibly a lot less. Skilled labor is expensive. But, an inspired amateur/hobbyist willing to invest time & effort can build a lot of "sweat equity"....without getting anywhere near a "money pit" of a project.

    There are a few parts that have gotten a bit pricey. The original muffler for example.

    As for fitting 190cc of Chinese engine...bad idea, especially for a beginner. A 140cc lump will make enough power to overbalance the suspension, brakes and tires...not to mention rider capabilities...and last a lot longer.

    The stock fork, of this model, can be oil-tuned to perform better than the cheap Chinese stuff. Add a good pair of aftermarket shocks, new brakes, tires & bearings and you've got just enough rolling chassis to contain up to about 60mph. Above that speed, for anything more than a short Banzai blast, over smooth pavement, is risky. Just sourcing tires rated higher than "J"/62mph is a challenge.
     
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  15. Chadly

    Chadly Member

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    Here are some pictures of the main bike. I have the seat and pan cleaned and painted. Waiting for new cover. We also have the engine guards. Waiting to put them back on after we replace the gear shifter seal. When we pull the cover to change the seal we will check the valve clearance at that time as we can see the timing mark. Then we need to go through the back brakes and paint the rims and hub. Debating on switching the swing arm with the parts bike as the parts bike has holes for passenger pegs. I'm assuming that is what the holes are for. The holes on this bike are welded closed. We rode it today a little bit up and down the road. Does not smoke and idles down real low. Does not pull on top as it should and surges a bit. I need to get and air filter on it and let the temps warm up some before messing with carb settings.
     

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  16. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    I'd strongly recommend removing the turn signals, at least for the interim. They're a horrible design, that snags everything...nearly impossible to NOT damage; that's why they're unobtainium rare parts now.

    Going by this set of pix, this bike looks even better than I thought previously. Nice snag!(y)

    You might want to check the wheels for concentricity (roundness & straightness), that's one helluva dent showing in your image #4915(1).

    If that's the original muffler, by all means inspect the headpipe, beneath the insulation/packing. The material Honda used is acidic enough to rot-out the headpipe in short order. If it's still solid, clean away any rust, give it a good shot of VHT header paint and replace the packing with the stuff used with Chinese knockoff mufflers, or a scrap of header wrap; the pipe will last many years longer.

    As for the weak performance, first thing to do is learn how to clean the emulsion tube, which is also the main jet holder. That must be unscrewed from the carb body, a fine wire run through every one of the wall orifices. This, garden-variety, issue has caused more needless grief than you can imagine...and it's an easy fix. Replace the air filter foam, it's old & deteriorated after 43 years.

    I'd check compression. And, even more important, the oil spinner (located inside the clutch face, behind the throwout bearing flange) must be cleaned, to avoid premature engine wear. I've seen engines in need of a rebuild with as little as 2000 miles on the clock...and healthy engines with 15,000+ showing. Timely oil changes and spinner cleanings can make that much difference.

    Lastly, for now, run JASO-spec, wet clutch-compatible, motorcycle oil only. Automotive oil is no longer compatible...the lack of zinc, plus added friction modifiers will result in burnt shift forks and contaminated clutch discs (and massive clutch slip).

    Honda removed the buddy peg bosses from US-spec CT70s beginning with the `76 model. You can swap-in another swingarm from any other year. I would, however, advise using a K1-K4 swingarm. K0 is the most common but, it's also weaker/more flexible...Honda added reinforcements, creating a "boxed section" swingarm early in the game, beginning with the K1 model.
     
  17. Chadly

    Chadly Member

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    I've not yet got the plates for the bike. I thought that if the bike came stock with blinkers I had to keep them on? Not sure if they work as the battery is cooked and my battery charger is 12v only so we have not yet tested and electronics. Are you saying take them off as they will be of value some day? Muffler is solid and we did put header wrap in place of the factory holder as you had recommended in another thread. Oil spinner still on the list of to do's. thanks for the heads up on the oil type. Front rim does have a ding. Looks worse in picture but defiantly there. Ran it with no air filter as both the front and rear boots to the air filter canister were rotten. Debating on an after market or boots and filter for the oem. oem path is way more cash so probably a cheap after market. Thanks for your help!
     
  18. Adam-NLV

    Adam-NLV Well-Known Member

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    racerx is right by saying that with the front blinker on there, they are easily susceptible to hitting something thus bending the heck out of the Fork ear(s). Those Fork Ears are a Bear to fix and are no longer made by Honda. In good shape they fetch a lot of money, so take good care of them. The 190cc engine was meant to be a (bad)joke by me, and really don't recommend it.;) I
     
  19. detdrbuzzard

    detdrbuzzard Active Member

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    if you are thinking about restoring the parts bike make a list of all the parts you need and then look up prices of those parts. I might have my CT 70 repainted in 2021 but for now i'm just going to enjoy it
     
  20. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    The original equipment turn signals are a horribly stupid design. They stick-out so far that it's difficult walking past the bike...while parked...without snagging one. They are damage-magnets, nearly impossible to repair and even more difficult to replace.

    Yes, `74 & later are required to have signals and I prefer running turn signals for road riding. That said, I'd remove the original signals for safe storage.

    Dratv has this kit. For next to nothing. This other kit is a few more bucks. Relocating the front signal bodies to the handlebars is pretty easy, using the same type of mounts used to add clamp-on mirrors. That keeps the signals is good locations for visibility, while getting them out of harm's way. Out back, you could leave the original stalk assembly in place; it's far more repairable if damaged and a bit less likely to be damaged. I'd recommend mothballing the OE stalk assembly and relocating the aftermarket signals further inboard, where they'll be more protected. Your frame has a pair of threaded mounting bosses along the rearmost edge. Those can be used to mount the offset brackets and the signal bodies. If you need to move them outboard, for clearance, plastic or rubber/rubberized signal stalks are relatively common aftermarket items. Or...small L-shaped brakets could be fabbed, and attached to the license plate.
     
  21. airblazer

    airblazer Active Member

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    4A603198-6055-4881-AF3F-CF5812591638.jpeg
    Looks like the right side Turn signal of your main runner has been the recipient of a bad snag in the past. This is what we are cautioning you to avoid with your parts bike that appears to be undamaged. Just a bunch of Monday morning quarterbacks trying to help you achieve whatever your goal is. You’ve got everyone here at your disposal from folks that are running around in the mud on some very fugly but functional bikes, all the way to those who feather dust their museum pieces on a daily basis.
     
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