CT70 Rarity/desirability
- Thread starter mjn
- Start date
mjn
Member
So even though the KO has the crappy front forks, it is still among the best as far as value goes? I understand the HK's with the 4speeds, but I thought I read here somewhere that there were a lot more KO's than any other model?..
For me, if I were to choose my fave right now, I think it'd be the HK1.. 4 speed AND good forks..
Is there any downside to the 4 speed tranny? Are they as tough as the autos?
hornetgod
Well-Known Member
I read an old article somewhere that stated roughly a total of 500,000 CT70's were made and it was the second most produced motorcycle by Honda. 100,000 or (1/5th) of those were made in 1970 alone. 1970 was the high water mark of the mini trail craze. As far as rarity and desirability, it's all subjective depending on the collector. Clearly the 4 speeds are rarer and the production numbers are far fewer. In my opinion the HK1 is a hotter item seeing there were only around 25,000 made in only two colors. The HKO comes in second with roughly 65,000 made in three color options. KO's were mass produced from mid 69' to mid 71' and are easily found most anywhere. The early 69' silver tag KO's are some of the most sought after due to the fact that they were first made and have serveral differences over the later KO's that were cranked out in large numbers.
My ranked opinion is below. Some may argue that the Silver Tag KO should be number one and they would have a good point however, my opinion may be swayed due to the fact that I own both a HKO and HK1. Perhaps and Silver Tag will be the next to add to my list.
1.) HK1
2.) HKO
3.) KO (silver tag)
4.) KO
5.) K1
6.) K2
My ranked opinion is below. Some may argue that the Silver Tag KO should be number one and they would have a good point however, my opinion may be swayed due to the fact that I own both a HKO and HK1. Perhaps and Silver Tag will be the next to add to my list.
1.) HK1
2.) HKO
3.) KO (silver tag)
4.) KO
5.) K1
6.) K2
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Backinthedays
Member
I will agree with hornetgod that this is very subjective subject. I like the tail pipe better on the KO's, has a more chrome look to me. I do like the front forks on the K1's, but I like the KO's better. I do like both of hornetgods bikes, but I like the EG HKO the best. I think the silver tag would be cool to have just because of the early production, but it makes me no real difference. If you ask me I would rank them as follows;
1) HKO (maybe silver tag KO here if your looking at value)
2) KO
3) HK1
4) K1
1) HKO (maybe silver tag KO here if your looking at value)
2) KO
3) HK1
4) K1
Collector value and overall quality/performance can be mutually exclusive, same as with any other collector vehicle. It all boils down to what someone is willing to pay, capitalism at its purest. If one were to go on conventional logic, then a Candy Ruby red HK1 or silver tag K0, complete with plastic hand levers, would be the hands-down winner. The term "resale red" didn't spontaneously appear in a vacuum. Production figures for CT70s are suspect, to say the least, varying by ~300%, depending upon the source (and the day). Those two models are still safe bets. Going purely on rarity, then there are a number of iterations so rare that there's no documentation other than photos & VIN tags: all-chrome K0 (dealer custom), `77 Australian model in light blue, any post `80 Canadian model in Shiny Orange and possibly the rarest of all, 1983 - 1988 Canadian models.
"A product is worth whatever it's worth, but a story can be worth millions". The K0s have the most iconic image and it's based on the older style "machine gun" muffler shield and appearance of the front end. So much for logic, eh?:loco:
There's no downside to the 4-speeds. Yes, the 3-speed trannies are stronger due to the larger gears. But, breakage isn't really an issue unless you're an abusive rider. For all that 3-speeds reputedly outsold the 4-speeds, 4 to 1,many hard parts for the H-motors are actually more plentiful as of 2010. It merely boils down to the H-motors using more "standard" parts that also fit newer, post-CT70, versions.
vrodsss
Active Member
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hornetgod
Well-Known Member
I'm certain an all original 69' KO silver tag would draw the most money if sold. I do however, wonder which (equally restored HKO & HK1) would sell higher. It could depend on the color. Owning both, it's clear to me which rides better and the handful of improvements and changes make the HK1 the break out winner.
Kindof like comparing a 67 Big Block Vette to a 2010 ZL1. While some would argue that the 2010 is a better car with all of it's "refinements" There is just NO replacement to the hot floorboards, leg burning sidepipes, and overall feel, "stiff" ride, and sounds the 1967 has.
On the CT front I own a early HKO and a K3 with the nice front shocks, if I rode these things from a sheer comfort standpoint the K3 would be the choice, but the 4 speed is hands down the funniest bike to ride! There is my .02 worth of Opinion.
jdgmbi1
120cc
I don't have a clue about the overall value of these things and if I did I would have been in a tight pickle a long time ago. I feel these things are priced on pure emotion. :loco:
BJ, could not aggree more on the description of the 67'. Drive like a tank, and give you a headache driving them for to long, but in my opinion nothing can even come close to the sound and the response when you hit the pedal.:77:
Point taken, but those differences would be more applicable if we were comparing a 12v model to an HK0. Even then, probably 80% of the parts content would be identical and more like 95% bolt-on interchangeable. Maybe more like comparing a `63 split window coupe, a `65 fuelie 327/375hp roadster and a `62 roadster. Seriously, an HK1 is a K3 with a 4-speed, minus turn signals, or more accurately, the K3 is a K1 with turn signals and a few cosmetic differences. Mechanically, the only differences between K0/HK0 and K1-`79s are the front ends and the availability of a 4-speed. Everything else is cosmetic and minor, at that...even that vaunted silver VIN tag. At the hardcore collector level, it's a mental chess game akin to what goes on with the "chalk marks and paint daub"-obsessed segment of the musclecar crowd.
At the extreme high end, I'd expect ultra-low mile originals to bring top dollar. In descending sequence: silver tag/plastic lever `69 K0, `70 HK0 & HK1 a virtual tie. Yet, after more than a decade into the post-ebay era, reality has played-out a little differently. I've seen `69-`72 models of every description, including 3 chrome "dealer specials", change hands north of the $5K mark and within a value spread of less than $400. Didn't seem to make much difference if the examples were 100-point restorations or 2-mile originals, as long as they were "perfect". The latter type have brought a couple of extra C-notes; until recently, they also took much longer to sell. Values dipped in the `02 -`06 period, but the top of the market was relatively unaffected even then. Prices have reached into new record territory over the past couple of years, at this level. Another "surprise" is that, as Harry mentioned, `79s seem to have emerged as the resale leader of the post `72 models. Apparently, "Bright Yellow" is a love/hate it proposition, guess that those in the former group really love it. Just as unpredictably, the `78s have all but fallen off the radar screen. Circa 2001, they held the spot now occupied by the `79s. Whod'a thunk it?
So, small differences generate most of the debate and the market is both unpredictable and constantly shifting. The best strategy, imo, kick back and watch it play-out...
opcorn:
vrodsss
Active Member
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Jim ,
I have a 2007 Vette that rides better then some family cars , gets almost 30 mpg (6 spd) on the road . If you ever get down my way , I'll take you for a ride . It has 550 HP at the wheels & looks & drives pretty much stock . I think you will be very surprised at the new Vettes . Only thing you will owe me , if you mess in my seat ! :4:
vrodsss
Active Member
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Brian ,
Less then 2 months away . I went in with a buddy on a vendors both . Not selling anything , just a place to keep my stuff . Going to be fun .
jdgmbi1
120cc
Vross, thanks for the offer. May have to take you up on it.
However, I bet I could give you an equally exciting scoot down the road in my Big Block '67 coupe.
mg:It may not be as fast, but I can guarantee you that you will swear your buttox is an inch off the pavement and your going to be lifting plane off .
lane:Messing the seat? V, I have 4 kids under 12, 4 dogs over 75lb, 2 miniture donkeys, chickens,...-I'm numb!:firefire:
vrodsss
Active Member
HA !!! 4 kids under 12 ? I can't top that one .
Back in the day , I had a 440 R/T . I would put a $20 bill on the dash & bet the passenger he couldn't lean foward & grab it , during take off . What a car .
---------- Post added at 09:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:26 PM ----------
Sounds good to me . Any pics ?
Back in the day , I had a 440 R/T . I would put a $20 bill on the dash & bet the passenger he couldn't lean foward & grab it , during take off . What a car .
---------- Post added at 09:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:26 PM ----------
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Sounds good to me . Any pics ?