Ct70 with Nice 110 - considering installing a ct110 motir

Discussion in 'Modifications' started by RMHRC, Aug 9, 2020.

  1. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    I like that bracket better than most I've seen used. It's an easy thing to make, if one has the shop equipment and some basic metal fab skill. That's one way of matching cable type & length. Going by your photo, looks to me like you have just enough adjustment remaining and that ought to be fine. Cables don't really stretch after being used for a while. I like no more than ~1mm of cable slack. IMO, that gives the best clutch action...especially with a stock-length CT70H hand lever.
     
  2. RMHRC

    RMHRC Member

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    Does a ct70 centre stand fit the Honda nice 110 engine ?
     
  3. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    Actually, that's more of a Dax part. The CT70 didn't get it until 1991. It's too narrow, by a lot, to fit this engine...without extensive mods. I'm talking about cutting it apart, sectioning & welding. If you're accomplished in metalfab, it is possible.

    FYI, the best setup IMHO, is the modular Honda Nice footrest/sidestand assembly. The footrest bar mounts to an upper section which has the sidestand. The new gen footpeg covers are hollow, adding another layer of rubber damping between the engine and the rider's feet. Even that has a problem; the pegs are rigid, a.k.a. "ankle breakers". I cut them off, grafted-on folding pegs. A fair bit of fab work but, everything is perfectly fitted to the engine and the result is great ergonomically as well.
     
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  4. RMHRC

    RMHRC Member

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    So what’s weird Bob is I think I have ct70 pegs on my Nice engine. They are folding pegs. Is the bolt pattern the same ?

    Maybe Asian concepts included them when I bought my engine.

    but my pegs def fold. I also only have a side stand
     
  5. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    The bolt pattern is identical. The CT70 engine is a good ~70mm narrower. If you have the Nice footrest assembly, the sidestand is part of the upper bracket, directly bolted to the engine; the footrest assembly bolts to the upper bracket, insulated by 4 large (~60mm OD) rubber grommets & matching stovepipe hat-shaped spacers. The crossbar is solid, including the pegs.

    It is possible to fit a CT70 footrest using spacers...IMO, it's poor fit. OTOH, it is also possible to fit an aftermarket footrest assembly. I once used a Jincheng footrest asm, that originally was bolted to a Zongshen 110 motor.
     
  6. RMHRC

    RMHRC Member

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    I def dot have Nice foot rests

    any thoughts on decent non chinese rear shocks that support 85kg?
     
  7. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    A simple question that is difficult to answer...due to budget differences. Ohlins has a 3-way adjustable (compression, rebound, spring preload), YSS has a 5-way (added height adjustment & low-speed adjustment). Both are ~$800/pair. The YSS is, in my view, the higher-line shock...more user-tunable and more spring options. Mind you, I'm not comparing manufacturers only specific product lines available to fit this application. IMO, Ohlins is the safer bet; more dealers & they're likely to be around for many years. Both shocks are rebuildable, top-quality, pieces. The price of admission is way beyond what most are willing to spend.

    Takegawa lists a 3-way adjustable in their catalog. Last I looked, Web!ke had them, $350/pair.

    Below this level, it's a bit of a crapshoot. At a minimum, go by spring rate. All the cheap shocks I've seen have been little more than spring holders, some look better than others. With a 60mph bike, it's tricky enough finding springs that prevent bottoming-out...without requiring the rider to wear a kidney belt.

    Shocks with real valving cost real money to produce. And that's what it all boils down to. Get the valving right, to control suspension motions, pair that with the correct spring rate and the result is outstanding. With the right variable-rate springs, ride quality is better than seems possible with a machine this small. Problem is, the current market for a twin-shock setup is smaller than the bike. That means few really good options and it's up to you to figure out a cross-reference. Neither manufacturer lists CT70, ST70, Z50 shocks.

    Ideally, you want a 335mm shock. I prefer 340mm, given the choice. Stock length is 330mm, or 335mm, depending upon the source you consult. 5mm is a small difference. Shortest I'd ever go is 320mm and that's really pushing the limit, longest would be 350mm.
     
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  8. fatcaaat

    fatcaaat Well-Known Member

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    The best bang for the buck rear shocks I've come across are the P937 that CHP sells. These are made in Japan, 330mm, and have good enough response for a budget. I've used these on a few of my bikes but agree with Bob. 3/4 of my CTikes all have 3-way adjustable spring, rebound, compression adjustments and 3/4 I was able to select the spring rates for them. They allow me to dial it in exactly for the experience I am looking for. The non-adjustable ones I have are from Daytona, but I was able to select the spring rate for those. I'd say I prefer the tunability.
     
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  9. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    Here's the modified Nice footrest asm I mentioned.

    IMG_7281.JPG IMG_7282.JPG IMG_7283.JPG
     
  10. RMHRC

    RMHRC Member

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  11. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    Kitaco & Takegawa rebrand shocks, neither manufactures them, never have. They are both high-end Japanese outfits, with hard-earned reputations to maintain. Thus, with these guys, you do get what you pay for.

    That Kitaco shock looks similar to the Kitaco-branded shocks I ran circa 2000-2006. Best guess, they're entry-level Showa. Only way to know what kind of ride quality they'll deliver is the hard...trial & error. My set delivered a decent ride quality...riding two-up and with the spring preload on the lightest setting. Otherwise, they were grossly oversprung for anyone under 300lbs/145kg. The 450AUD Takegawa shocks are probably mid-level YSS units. In terms of performance, between the two, there's no comparison. If I were in your place, I'd look for a YSS dealer/distributor closer to home, go through their catalog and select the best the budget will allow...and specify a spring rate. YSS uses variable-rate springs, at least with their higher-line shocks.
     
  12. RMHRC

    RMHRC Member

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    F66DCC6B-B395-4788-8DC6-AFB09016BE9A.png Tah for the heads up re shock makers. Found the local yss dealer
    Is the ST70 a good proxy for the ct70 as could t find ct70 spec
     
  13. fatcaaat

    fatcaaat Well-Known Member

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    If you can find a set, Hagon 2810 shocks have been a real surprise on one of my bikes. I was able to get them to install the exact spring I wanted on it before it shipped out.
     
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  14. RMHRC

    RMHRC Member

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    Found these yss shocks

    F1BDF87E-6AD6-4D09-ABCF-EE5A69A15E3B.png

    good ?
     
  15. OLD CT

    OLD CT Well-Known Member

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    At that LOW price they must be fake China knockoff shocks. They are totally NON ADJUSTABLE! Careful on Ebay... If you want real YSS, you should look at the YSS site.
     
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  16. RMHRC

    RMHRC Member

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    Spoke to YSS OZ.

    $350 for black spring rear shocks

    that’s about $220 USD

    Should I spring for chrome springs which are $70 more expensive?
     
  17. RMHRC

    RMHRC Member

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    Good advise

    I spoke with YSS. They are great.

    I’m looking for 330mm eye to eye aren’t I?
     
  18. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    The shocks shown above in #52 are not worth $450/pair. They are okay but wholesale for about 1/4 that advertised price.

    With YSS, adjustable compression & rebound are found on their higher-line, ~$500-up, shocks. Like Ohlins, their product lines top-out, price-wise close to $2K. IMO, the value tops-out with their $750-850/pair shocks, beyond that price point is a waste...for these bikes. The trick is finding the low-end price point where you get a goodly percentage of the performance...following the "80/20 rule". It IS possible to get acceptable quality shocks, i.e. they'll deliver actual shock damping and control suspension motions, without bottom-out easily and not start leaking after minimal mileage. As pricing crosses the midpoint, those added dollars start buying ride quality...and plush ride quality is very difficult to achieve with a bike this small & lightweight.

    I spoke with a US distributor of Hagon shocks. They seemed like good folks. The shocks were late 1960s-era Dunlop/Girling units, OE on classic British bikes. Old-school technology, quality construction...and rebuildable. One problem...they vanished from the face of the earth.

    Another possibility might be sourcing a pair of used Ohlins, from a full size bike, then sourcing softer springs from Ohlins.

    FYI, length is always eye-to-eye with all shocks. Spring finish is a matter of personal preference. I'm old-school, chrome & polished billet are high on my list of likes. That said, all else the same, if the budget is limited, I'd allocate the extra bucks toward function, and go with PCd springs.
     
  19. RMHRC

    RMHRC Member

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    C59F2CFF-D294-4C9F-8CB1-8CE3F57C554A.jpeg 95DE1BFD-F1C6-46E6-8B20-FD3B40D133DE.jpeg 8EFA83CF-1095-4649-A793-2566D9E23BEA.jpeg C34AECE4-9578-4978-A775-AF1220A6B443.jpeg 1FAE6E61-F3B7-4367-B4B5-AA4DCF7ADA0A.jpeg Ok tackled the 1972 CT70 forks today.

    1. I butchered the plastic bushings. Where do I get more from? Could I have some HDPE versions made or can I buy original online ?

    2. what do you think of the fork chrome ?i think Bob is right when he says better to leave alone...



    3. Can you buy heavier fork springs for these forks ?

    4. the oil looked like whale snot. About a table spoon came out initially.

    5. I love working on this bike.

    6. bought a new oem complete exhaust and heat shield today.

    7. I think I’ll just buy those black YSS shocks as they are about $250 US dollars. shipping stuff from the US to Oz at the moment is crazy cost and time delays
     
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  20. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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