Deal of the day, better act fast.

andrewdell19

Active Member
Why is the hk1 a much more durable frame over the hk0? Is there an added support? What is considered a "matching engine"? I know the "z50 book" says anything is possible when it comes to amount of numbers off between engine and frame even thousands off. Personally I have owned one that was about 500-600 off and the original owner "promised" it was the original engine.

Btw a ct70 book by the same author is coming out in Jan... Too bad not soon enough for a stocking stuffer but I thought the z50 book was pretty cool.
 

hrc200x

Active Member
Thought on a ct70 anything around 400 difference or under was considered matching for most bikes. What I'm not sure of if the motor or frame number is usually higher and if that changes year to year.
 

69ST

Well-Known Member
K1 & later frames have a welded-in, one-piece, cradle brace in the engine mount area. K0 has split reinforcements which sometimes results in stress crack formation at the outside edges of the triangle through which the fuel lines, plug lead, wire harness & inlet airbox boot pass.

FWIW, I agree that 400-500 variance between engine SN and frame VIN is close enough to be considered "matching". At the other extreme, there are a few known examples of exact matches. What complicates HK1 engine/frame matching is the relatively lower production. 3-speed production outstripped 4-speeds by something like four, or five, to one, depending upon the source. Then there's the D.O.M. From what I've seen, production slowed as 1972 progressed...very likely what led to this being the end of the H-model.
 

hrc200x

Active Member
Now that racerx mentioned it, I have seen KO's with cracks in that area and can't recall any on later bikes, cracks were by where the rear carb boot goes up inside the frame, maybe 1 inch long. Thought the only difference was the added cross brace that silver tags or some silver tags didn't have. Anyone have pictures of the one piece cradle brace?
 

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
Did someone say pictures??

K0

IMG_20171029_150251279.jpg


K1.
IMG_20171029_150326728.jpg
 

hrc200x

Active Member
Thanks kirrbby. Honda caught the problem early but little did they know probably 80% of the ct70 sales were done by then. Any idea if late KO's had the better gusset?
 

smitfire

Member
K1 & later frames have a welded-in, one-piece, cradle brace in the engine mount area. K0 has split reinforcements which sometimes results in stress crack formation at the outside edges of the triangle through which the fuel lines, plug lead, wire harness & inlet airbox boot pass.

FWIW, I agree that 400-500 variance between engine SN and frame VIN is close enough to be considered "matching". At the other extreme, there are a few known examples of exact matches. What complicates HK1 engine/frame matching is the relatively lower production. 3-speed production outstripped 4-speeds by something like four, or five, to one, depending upon the source. Then there's the D.O.M. From what I've seen, production slowed as 1972 progressed...very likely what led to this being the end of the H-model.

Those cracks have to be hard to repair...?
 

69ST

Well-Known Member
Not really...
I've successfully soldered them, using an old-fashioned soldering iron - the type that takes forever to heat. Once heated, though, that thermal mass becomes an advantage. The trick is getting the solder to flow-out properly, without causing damage to the float. I find that fairly easy & straightforward but, for the sake of disclosure, know that I've had decades to learn many types of soldering. That said, this kind of brass repair is easy. The area to be repaired must be cleaned; a shot of solvent, scouring with steel wool or scotchbrite, followed by another shot of solvent, will get the metal clean enough. 60/40 acid core solder is self-fluxing and the alloy melts at a low temp ~390F. Lead-free solder won't work for this. Bring the soldering tip up-to-temp, testing it with solder; when it melts & flows onto the tip, you're ready to begin. Heat the area to be repaired, give it a few seconds, then touch the solder to the float and the soldering tip. You need to heat the part enough to melt the solder. However, molten solder in liquid form, improves heat flow dramatically and you can use that to get a properly-flowed-out solder joint. Apply just enough solder to cover the break, then sweep the soldering tip over the area moving just slowly enough to get a smooth, mirror-like bead. Then remove the soldering heat. That's about all there is to this type of repair. Float cracks tend to be tiny, rarely larger than a pinhole in total area. You want to work slowly enough to get the solder flowed-out (meaning that it actually bonds to the brass, sealing the leak), then quickly remove the heat before anything can be affected by it.

If you lack any soldering experience, at all, this may not be the DIY repair for you. OTOH, if you have even modest experience, it's easier than it might come across as being. Seriously, this is very similar to the kind a slot car fab work I learned...before starting high school.
 

Mike_

Active Member
its a steal!! If anyone wants it, Ill help you get it, just pay for the shipping and price of the bike!! My labor is free!


https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/mcy/d/1968-honda-z50/6366213168.html

1968 Honda Z50 - $1150
1968 Honda Z50 mini trail.. first year...Runs Great...good condition...Vintage collectable..can deliver to Bay Area...1150.00....650 430 2275 text or email


 

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smitfire

Member
Not really...
I've successfully soldered them, using an old-fashioned soldering iron - the type that takes forever to heat. Once heated, though, that thermal mass becomes an advantage. The trick is getting the solder to flow-out properly, without causing damage to the float. I find that fairly easy & straightforward but, for the sake of disclosure, know that I've had decades to learn many types of soldering. That said, this kind of brass repair is easy. The area to be repaired must be cleaned; a shot of solvent, scouring with steel wool or scotchbrite, followed by another shot of solvent, will get the metal clean enough. 60/40 acid core solder is self-fluxing and the alloy melts at a low temp ~390F. Lead-free solder won't work for this. Bring the soldering tip up-to-temp, testing it with solder; when it melts & flows onto the tip, you're ready to begin. Heat the area to be repaired, give it a few seconds, then touch the solder to the float and the soldering tip. You need to heat the part enough to melt the solder. However, molten solder in liquid form, improves heat flow dramatically and you can use that to get a properly-flowed-out solder joint. Apply just enough solder to cover the break, then sweep the soldering tip over the area moving just slowly enough to get a smooth, mirror-like bead. Then remove the soldering heat. That's about all there is to this type of repair. Float cracks tend to be tiny, rarely larger than a pinhole in total area. You want to work slowly enough to get the solder flowed-out (meaning that it actually bonds to the brass, sealing the leak), then quickly remove the heat before anything can be affected by it.

If you lack any soldering experience, at all, this may not be the DIY repair for you. OTOH, if you have even modest experience, it's easier than it might come across as being. Seriously, this is very similar to the kind a slot car fab work I learned...before starting high school.

Nice work, I know where to go if I need one done
 

andrewdell19

Active Member

andrewdell19

Active Member
I know that seller, and he doesn't usually keep any junk. For that price, you can't really go wrong.
Doesn't keep any junk as in the reason he is selling is because it's not up to his standards? Either way even one or two decent bars for a rider and I'm good with it.

I sold him something a while back forget what it was. Then I believe I got something from him as well I think it was a k1 or k2 tail light bracket.
 

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
His stuff is usually pretty nice, which makes me think these bars will be decent. He seems to be unloading all of his stuff.,?
 
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