Doctor, I've got no pulse!

Discussion in 'Projects/Builds' started by airblazer, Mar 21, 2012.

  1. airblazer

    airblazer Member

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    Hi guys,

    Over the past few weeks I got to enjoy helping my son build his pinewood derby car (see below). His car performed just how I wanted...not first, not last! :4:

    With the warm up in the weather its been nice enough to turn rusty bolts with confidence, so I've got my bike torn down almost as far as I can go without an impact driver...I'll be picking one up this weekend. Those engine case screws aren't budging. Not that it's a surprise :29:...

    Anyways, I thought I'd kick this idea to the forum: The entire interior of the frame on my bike is covered in rust. I "wannabe" like Mike Daruke and remove it all by hand sanding and stripper, but I don't see how I can remove it all, especially in the tight seams and grooves not accessible by hand. Suggestions??? Thanks

    p.s. that's a spider nest in the tar-filled exhaust port!

    pinewood.jpg oil.jpg stripped.jpg exhaust.jpg
     
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  3. bc17a

    bc17a Well-Known Member

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    I used a friend's blast cabinet to clean the rust out of mine.
     
  4. Banjovi

    Banjovi Member

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    Can't help with rust removal, but I just wanted to say: cool pinewood derby car!
     
    #3 Banjovi, Mar 22, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2017
  5. schmelpboy

    schmelpboy New Member

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    Same here. Luckily, I have a body shop at my disposal, but when I was doing a CT project, I went to Harbor Freight and bought their small sandblaster for like 40 bucks. It's not good for a big project, but it worked well to shove down into the frame....there wasn't a spot I wasn't able to reach with it.
     
  6. airblazer

    airblazer Member

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    I don't currently have any "friends" with a blast cabinet, so I guess I need to make one?! :21:

    That raises another question: In said blast cabinet, how were you able to reach and remove rust that was in the interior of the frame forward of the ignition switch? thanks for the tip. I'll check HF out. What size of compressor did you use?

    I'm still interested in reading how all of the rest of those who have restored/are restoring their bikes prepped them for paint! Thanks

    p.s. hope everybody can have a good laugh at what I discovered on the exhaust. it was held together with a steel threaded pipe and hose clamps from home depot!:30:

    pipe.jpg
     
  7. Adam-NLV

    Adam-NLV Well-Known Member

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    On my Mustang, there wasn't that much rust (made in San Jose) but there was some. I put this lime liquid stuff on it (a BASE-rust neutralizer?) after sanding it. I also painted it with self etching primer (from DuPont I think) it was kinda a pain but it worked.

    Nice derby car, mount that spare tire from the back to the hood and you'll pick up speed!:21:
     
    #6 Adam-NLV, Mar 22, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2012
  8. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    As shadetree/bandaid repairs go, that exhaust fix is pretty clean. You should see some of the tape & JB weld "fixes" I've run across. :butcher:

    You've only got two basic choices with rust removal: mechanical or chemical. There's a "not quite third" choice, rust conversion/sealer primer.

    IMO, chemical removal is the wrong process. The seams present multiple problems, including retention of chemical residue that has ruined more than one paint job.

    Low-pressure media blasting, using a small (sub-30cfm) gun is the best way to go. Plan on spending 3-4 hours hunched over the cabinet to get the main frame completely down to "white metal". Most of that will be spent working on the inside of the frame, a war of attrition... guessing where to direct to media stream, pulling the frame out of the cabinet into daylight to look for missed spots & repeating until all of the rust is gone.

    The wheels arch seams & engine mount/coil/tank bracket area can be a sonofabitch to access. Wheel arch seams can be partially opened-up if the rust is heavy, to allow media flow. The non-visible areas inside the frame (the seams, mainly) can be sealed using POR-15, or Corolless rust stabilizing primer, if desired/needed. Just wipe off any visible excess, using lacquer thinner, while still wet. This allows neutralizing & sealing oxidized recesses as no other methods can...without risk of out-migration of chemical residue beneath your new paint.

    I normally saturate the seams with the same epoxy primer used for the rest of the job.
     
  9. airblazer

    airblazer Member

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    progress?

    Hello,

    Just another long build update w/rookie questions here. I've got the frame mostly torn down. All that's left on are the front forks. I've read the advice on how to remove the fork nuts, but I lack all the tools listed in the various ways to remove them. No biggie, I'll make the necessary purchase this weekend. What I can't seem to figure out is how to remove the steering cap. That thing will not budge. You can also see in the pic of the top clamp the holes that the PO made. I'd tig weld them like someone suggested, but I've never welded a thing in my life, and the threads for the handlebar holder nuts are damaged from the PO's "custom" handlebar setup.
    The dent in the right side of the frame seems to be common, and I've seen Bob's lead fill repair as well as rumors of paintless dent repair. I know which Bob would suggest, but I'd still like to hear everyone's (including Bob's) opinion on how best to remove it. Thanks again! :4:
    frame.jpg engine.jpg boxoparts.jpg argh.jpg dent1.jpg dent2.jpg
     
  10. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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    I usually break that cap loose with a 6 point wrench or socket and a rubber mallet. The 6 point part is important, hold it well down on the nut and give the other end of the wrench/ratchet a good whack with the mallet. Hit it hard enough so you only have to do it once, but not so hard that anything will go flying or get damaged if something goes wrong. I would not use a adjustable wrench or pliers or you Will be needing a new cap.
     
  11. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    If you want to save $$$ and end up with a better result, source another, used, K0 top tree. I've rarely seen them buggered to this degree. Heliarc welding and re-drilling/tapping threaded holes this size require specialized skills & equipment, thus they won't come cheap. Then there's the metalfinishing & polishing, I'm not sure that the welded-in holes would be invisible. Usually, I'm a fan of repairing over replacement but, I also know when it's time to cut your losses. This is one such example.

    As for paintless dent removal, that'd be my first choice. The use of fillers, of any type, should be kept to an absolute minimum. An experienced PDR tech shouldn't charge you more than $50 to iron-out that knot, money well-spent. At the very least, the metal should be straight to within a few thousandths of an inch (less than a sparkplug gap), close enough that polymer scratch filler & wetsanding will be all that's needed to complete the repair.

    As for body lead, it has its place in the repair arsenal. Being metal, it's a stable, lifetime, material but... the applications are limited. It could legitimately be used for the frame dent pictured. Frankly, removing that dent would be pretty simple. Some basic hammer & dolly work could get the surface level enough to eliminate the need for lead filler in the first place.

    Don't underestimate the importance of body prep on these little bikes. A fresh, new, finish over dents & scratches is a major cause of "wouldashouldacoulda" regret for many owners. That said, no need to stress-out over this, either:102: Extra time & patience, plus working methodically, can go a long way toward overcoming lack of experience. If you're going to strip, blast & repaint anyway, you can use the original finish as a guide to highlight any dents which may be lurking. A sanding block & 240-400 grit wet/dry paper is all the equipment needed, for this stage of the project.
     
  12. airblazer

    airblazer Member

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    Hello all,

    This build thread is 6 years old, but it’s mine, so I’ll use it to stay organized. I’m in need of some advice...

    I’ve dragged the Landfill KO out from under the stairs in the garage and have committed to getting it fixed up and running, hopefully in 6 months. I’m taking an inventory of the parts and noted some rusty spots on the front shocks. Is there a way to restore these or is replacement a more sensible option? Thanks for your feedback.

    0981F831-2706-4A15-9476-3E2908D6C6BD.jpeg C40F4ACB-96AB-4C15-849C-2057A41324E3.jpeg
     
  13. cjpayne

    cjpayne Well-Known Member

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    I honestly cant tell, but it looks more like caked/dried on grease than rust. I would remove the grease first, then see how much rust is there.
     
  14. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    The plating is beyond expired. If they're straight, they can be rechromed. It is usually possible to straighten them, if bent, but that adds to the already substantial cost of chrome. Replacement is an option...new repops are inexpensive...straight originals, once triple-chromed, are better.
     
  15. airblazer

    airblazer Member

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    Thanks for the input CJ & Bob. The whole bike is covered in dirt, grease, and rust. I’m a little concerned about accelerating corrosion by removing the dirt and grease - any tips? I’m committed to getting it running, for now. A full resto can happen once I feel familiar with it. The shocks are straight, near as I can tell. But it sounds like I’ll be in the market for some repops while I save my pennies for a rechrome job.
     
  16. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    IDK, the repops aren't quite purist-correct but they're very nice...minty-new & straight. Among the reproduction parts currently available, they come reasonably close to OEM in terms of manufacturing detail. The best way to keep your K0 fork internals from rusting is to make sure they're properly greased. The external portions of the lower fork legs can be waxed and that'll keep rust at bay for a long time, as long as you keep on top of things. Wax does go away, in time. It only takes a minute to wax and polish-away the haze...easy enough.

    The only way to truly see what you have is by removing the inner fork leg assemblies, separating the lowers, then checking them on a known, flat, surface.
     
  17. airblazer

    airblazer Member

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    How do you remove the aluminum caps? I’ve noticed some specific cmc tools that claim to do the job on the interwebs - is that what you pros use? I don’t want to damage them. On the other hand I might discover the fork threads are rusted out and I’ll have to replace the whole front end
     
  18. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    There are a number of removal methods. I just use a strap wrench, with no issues unless the threads are really oxidized. That doesn't happen very often. Half the time, I'm able to unscrew them by hand(!).

    FYI, these things are still available new and they are cheap.
     
  19. cjpayne

    cjpayne Well-Known Member

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    There is a bushing in there too. Like racerx said, there cheap and available. Get the OEM good quality replacements while you can. You never know when Honda is going to discontinue parts for these bikes.
     
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  20. airblazer

    airblazer Member

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    I’m slowly making my shopping list... the headlight and chrome bezel were MIA when I found the bike, but the speedo and internal wiring were intact. I’m wondering how I get the speedo out of the housing? I can see the screws I’d remove, but what about the stud? Or maybe I don’t need to remove any of them to get it out?
     

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  21. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    If you're trying to open the speedometer, be prepared for some lessons that come with a harsh grading curve. None of these speedometers was intended to be opened & serviced...ever. Thus, there's no shop manual procedure to follow.

    The outer bezel has to be carefully pried, to un-crimp the bottom edge enough to release it and the cover glass...without leaving scars. It's a skill of its own, no mean feat. The one upside is that the K0 units are easier to open than the K1-later versions. And, the bezel is made from thicker 0.017" thick metal. If you break, or deform anything beyond its elastic limit...you're stuck. There are no sources for repair parts, never were. Back in the day, speedometers were sold as replacement units only.
     

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