cjpayne
Well-Known Member
I have a set of dry rotted original Nitto's from a 1/71 K0. I was planning soon to cut them up to check the rims out. What kind of stampings would I look for?
I'm calling BS on this one! Am I wrong?
- Thread starter Tim Hare
- Start date
cjpayne
Well-Known Member
These are pics of all the numbers/letters I could find.
Front tire
Rear tire
Both of the tires say NITTO 116
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kirrbby
Well-Known Member
I imagine he would have made the original owner convince him that the speedo showed actual miles, or the bike did. Same as I would have.
And... WOW! 10G's as a owner of a few mini trails, I hope Scott got that price for his bike.
OLD CT
Well-Known Member
The common ''year'' letter appears to be ''A'' DADHP and the other is EAGHP. With polyglas tires in 1970 ''A'' was the first part of the letter code for most of the year. Just a wild ass guess at this point but ''A'' could very well mean 1970.One thing is for sure,code decoding has changed several times since 1970.
CTKing
Active Member
I already know the pictures aren't the best and that I should not use a cell phone. Please pick them apart as I know you guys will. Please note the original rubber on the brake lever and the color. Also the black inspection mark on the bolt holding the tail light assembly on. Hopefully you guys can see the inspection marks on the rims also. Notice the coloring inside the battery box and the inside of the frame, it shows how they didn't put as much effort into painting areas that would not be seen. And hopefully you will agree that their is no DOT marking on the tires. According to what I read DOT stamps were started in the late 60's and not fully implemented until about 1971.Infact my friends early silver tag with trail wings has no marking either. In regard to the red stripe on the throttle cable above the carb, I believe you are incorrect about when they started putting them on. I was under the impression that was done closer to 1971 but I also could be wrong just going off the data and pics I've seen. I know looking at all the pics of my bikes none of the early ones had it. The first bike I saw it on was my 1971 H. Please look at the motor and carb also. Though these are very clean they due show some light signs of patina. So guys please have at it but try not to beat me up to bad.
I think you may have a somewhat incorrect impression...and for good reasons. As I said earlier, healthy skepticism is a good thing. Bikes like this don't come along very often and, especially in this case, it's the adversarial Q&A that has revealed some important facts & details that were missing from your listing. That last batch of photos is far more revealing and a lot better than the first. Agreed, those are pretty decent for a phone camera. Imagine what a $70 Canon Powershot could do, by comparison.
It's pretty clear that the frame is wearing its OEM paint. The tank area was sprayed with indifference, almost more like heavy overspray than a serious effort. That's how they did `em back then, (paint runs & light spots are fairly common, too). And, since the rest of the tins match, there's no question about the rest, either. Contrary to popular belief, the quality of the OEM finish & color match varied wildly...from bike-to-bike and part-to-part on the same bike. Some were borderline awful, some were amazingly good. This one looks to be among the high end of that latter group.
As for the rest of the details mentioned in your last post, I think you've nailed it. The early bikes saw a flurry of running changes. Some, like the tire markings, were legislated and took years to fully implement.
It's pretty clear that the frame is wearing its OEM paint. The tank area was sprayed with indifference, almost more like heavy overspray than a serious effort. That's how they did `em back then, (paint runs & light spots are fairly common, too). And, since the rest of the tins match, there's no question about the rest, either. Contrary to popular belief, the quality of the OEM finish & color match varied wildly...from bike-to-bike and part-to-part on the same bike. Some were borderline awful, some were amazingly good. This one looks to be among the high end of that latter group.
As for the rest of the details mentioned in your last post, I think you've nailed it. The early bikes saw a flurry of running changes. Some, like the tire markings, were legislated and took years to fully implement.
Enginedoctor
Well-Known Member
well ctking, i don't think the intention was to 'beat you up' as much as it was just a general sense of disbelief. sure, the internet offers anonymity that enables people to act in a demeanor not usually found in face to face dealings, but along with the proof of originality of a rare gem like this, the devil is in the details. yeah, we all know the iphone and it's clones have a 6 or 10 or 12 megapixel camera, but in reality, the picture comes from the LENS of the camera, as well as the ability of the optic sensor to pick up pixels. i agree with racerx that even a cheap digital point and shoot on the order of $100 will take better pictures than the new $800 iphone 6. you don't make phone calls with a camera, why take pictures with your phone? convenience. that's the only reason.
not that it's anyone's business at this point, but utilizing the macro button (looks like a flower) on a good digital camera on some of the paint markings and nuances of the bike may have prevented this thread altogether. not saying skepticism isn't healthy, but i'm sure some of the comments may have offended you, especially considering you were the only one with the ability to refute them. if i sold anything for a big boy amount of dollars online (as you did), i'd make haste in obtaining a quality digi cam to ensure i maximized my profits through establishing the top 1% quality of items to be sold on the market, and be able to prove them to be that quality without being in person to see them. i sell LOTS of stuff online, and condition is everything.
That being said, nice bike. i see what you mean on the DOT compliance. it was just something i brought up knowing a thing or two about tires, motorcycle or car, and i even sold a pair today. since your tires predate this requirement, i guess that means they're from the era they ought to be. nice.
hope you keep at least one nice ct70.... after all, you're the king.
not that it's anyone's business at this point, but utilizing the macro button (looks like a flower) on a good digital camera on some of the paint markings and nuances of the bike may have prevented this thread altogether. not saying skepticism isn't healthy, but i'm sure some of the comments may have offended you, especially considering you were the only one with the ability to refute them. if i sold anything for a big boy amount of dollars online (as you did), i'd make haste in obtaining a quality digi cam to ensure i maximized my profits through establishing the top 1% quality of items to be sold on the market, and be able to prove them to be that quality without being in person to see them. i sell LOTS of stuff online, and condition is everything.
That being said, nice bike. i see what you mean on the DOT compliance. it was just something i brought up knowing a thing or two about tires, motorcycle or car, and i even sold a pair today. since your tires predate this requirement, i guess that means they're from the era they ought to be. nice.
hope you keep at least one nice ct70.... after all, you're the king.
CTKing
Active Member
We'll I was a little floored about the price of my bike. I didn't want to discuss it until I got paid because we all know how a lot of ebay things end up. I set my reserve at 10k because I never thought it would hit such a high number. Since I was so unsure if I wanted to sell the bike this provided me a little protection. I figured if it went to price I was comfortable with I could contact the person after the auction or end it like I did. The guy who bought it spent much time on the phone with me and I sent him many additional pictures. I felt comfortable dealing with him and also that his offer was more then fair for this bike. He explained he's in it for the long term and realizes the bike will far exceed that price in the future. With that said I had three options 1. Back out which would be wrong because he hit my reserve. 2. Be greedy see how much I could get and risk the possibility of dealing with a poor buyer. 3. Or just end the auction and deal with a person I thought would enjoy the bike and respect it for what it is. So I chose number 3 and feel very comfortable with the buyer. So that's my story and I'm sticking to it. Maybe with my extra money I'll invest in a digital camera.
cjpayne
Well-Known Member
LOL. That made me laugh. I've used those at work before and once you get used to them, they're great. You can also shoot vids/sound in high quality and email them. With a sale, hearing and seeing the bike run would help too. Anyway, that's cool that you got the reserve and someone got it that will take care of it.
kirrbby
Well-Known Member
Sellers remorse shouldn't be a issue for you at this point. Maybe 10 years from now, but not today. I love that you got that price, the price of CT70's just went up. I'm imagining a bunch of ebay CT70 sellers raising their reserves, lol. But who can set a value of a one of a kind item? I would think a buyer can, better than anyone else. That bike is now worth at least 10 grand. Pretty hard to argue in my opinion. Congrats sir, you did well.
Enginedoctor
Well-Known Member
agreed. although, i don't think we'll see any more quite like this one. a double digit mileage original k0... the restored ones i think hit a glass ceiling, although they're nice in their own right. this certainly establishes a milestone for the market.
You just detailed the reality behind a situation that had appeared surreal. To the best of my knowledge, that's a first here. That big of a jump in selling price is something that cannot be predicted with any certainty. Such quantum leaps happen when they happen, as unlikely as they might seem. We've also seen a LOT of outright squirrely bullshit in the marketplace. I try to remain pragmatic, which is why I withheld judgment until now...when you've rendered it about as useful as an appendix transplant. The fact remains that a commodity is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it, no matter how unlikely. That, in a nutshell, is my point...facts are indisputable; feelings don't matter. A lot of folks overlook that completely...and that is part of the auction experience.
Bottom line, congrats on setting a new resale record. I wouldn't expect the bar to suddenly leap that far upward, universally, for ultra-low-mileage "proof" bikes. If that were to happen, there'd be a CT70 bubble. OTOH, even though it is a big jump, that's only viewed from a short-term perspective. There were a few similar examples (a couple f them were even CG) that changed hands north of $5K, circa 2002. $10K, a dozen years later, is an annualized appreciation rate of 6%; that's less than the real rate of inflation. And, between `03 & `07, especially, values for bikes & parts, plummeted in dramatic fashion. They've rebounded slowly ever since then. If one were to plot market prices over a course of decades, the graphical representation would appear fairly smooth...a long, graceful, arc. But, memory & human nature being what they are, trends rarely progress smoothly & predictably, over the shorter term.
Speaking from the viewpoint of one who's been into this for a couple of decades, now (and the car side for better than twice as long), these bikes are following a familiar (sometimes bumpy) path of a true collectible classic. IMO, high market values are a good thing, across the board. They'll pull more enthusiasts and parts suppliers into the scene, ensuring it's continued health for many years to come. That's more grins for all who enjoy small Hondas...and the world can use all the extra grins it can get.
Bottom line, congrats on setting a new resale record. I wouldn't expect the bar to suddenly leap that far upward, universally, for ultra-low-mileage "proof" bikes. If that were to happen, there'd be a CT70 bubble. OTOH, even though it is a big jump, that's only viewed from a short-term perspective. There were a few similar examples (a couple f them were even CG) that changed hands north of $5K, circa 2002. $10K, a dozen years later, is an annualized appreciation rate of 6%; that's less than the real rate of inflation. And, between `03 & `07, especially, values for bikes & parts, plummeted in dramatic fashion. They've rebounded slowly ever since then. If one were to plot market prices over a course of decades, the graphical representation would appear fairly smooth...a long, graceful, arc. But, memory & human nature being what they are, trends rarely progress smoothly & predictably, over the shorter term.
Speaking from the viewpoint of one who's been into this for a couple of decades, now (and the car side for better than twice as long), these bikes are following a familiar (sometimes bumpy) path of a true collectible classic. IMO, high market values are a good thing, across the board. They'll pull more enthusiasts and parts suppliers into the scene, ensuring it's continued health for many years to come. That's more grins for all who enjoy small Hondas...and the world can use all the extra grins it can get.