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kirrbby

Well-Known Member
These are straight, but the chrome is kinda rough. This would be the cheapest, reasonably matching pair that I have. $45 plus shipping. That's about $5 more than I might pay for them if I came across them for sale. I know you're in Canada, so shipping might sting a little too. I have some with a little better chrome, but I'm pretty proud of them.

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kirrbby

Well-Known Member
Honda calls that a cover. Bottom Case Cover. I call them chrome sleeves, for lack of a better name. They can sometimes be a bugger to remove. Other times they might slide off easily. I think it's leaky forks that usually glue them on. Not usually rust...more like pine tar.
 

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
I have a CT70 K0 that doesn't shift properly. Mostly when trying to downshift 2nd to 1st. Hangs up in a false neutral, or maybe rattles a bit in a false neutral. What's the problem?? Transmission? Gear dogs maybe. Screwing with the clutch hasn't solved it, but I could try a different clutch first..?
 

69ST

Well-Known Member
Possibilities that spring to mind: worn shift forks, worn shift for pins, problem with the shift star/detent assembly, bent shifter shaft.

Have you split the cases and replaced the shift forks?
 

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
Yup. I've been in there. Swapped in a good used drum complete. Haven't looked at the shift shaft at all. I don't remember looking over the trans sharts and gears tho. Seems I would have, but I don't remember. I was looking for clutch issues, then shift fork issues.
 

hrc200x

Active Member
What would happen if a 4 speed shift drum was used with 3 speed shift forks, tranny and star? Bind up tight and not shift or go between gears? Was drum removed from a 3 speed, or loose on a shelf and could be 4 speed? Hopefully it ends up being the clutch. Does it ever pop out of a gear on its own and go into the false neutral because i have a KO that does that, but am leaning towards the shift star loose or arm with wheel that runs on the star broke or damaged. Does anything rattle in the tranny if bike idling both in N and a gear and leaned WAY to the left or right?
 

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
It's definitely the correct trans and shift drum. Usually it will start out, shifting reasonably well. But it doesn't take long before it starts acting up, then gets progressively worse. I have a Z50 lower end from a similar build date. I'm considering swapping everything...trans, clutch, shift shaft, into the CT70 motor. If I can't find a likely culprit when I tear down the engine, that's what I'll probably do. This bike is my silvertag CT. I want to clean it up and sell it.
 

69ST

Well-Known Member
The obvious thermal component rules-out the shift detent assembly and drive dogs. That leaves the shift forks, pins, drum, & shifter shaft. I've seen replacement shift forks that made light contact with the cases; that's why I asked if the cases had been split. That could get worse with heat. There were also changes in shift fork design with the early bikes, I've never been really clear on the details. A misplaced thrust washer could be causing the grief.

Might be worth looking for something like the wrong shift drum fixing bolt & washer. They appear to be generic items, but they aren't. I've seen a lot of binding issues caused by this and it's always worse in one direction than the other.
 

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
The obvious thermal component rules-out the shift detent assembly and drive dogs. That leaves the shift forks, pins, drum, & shifter shaft. I've seen replacement shift forks that made light contact with the cases; that's why I asked if the cases had been split. That could get worse with heat. There were also changes in shift fork design with the early bikes, I've never been really clear on the details. A misplaced thrust washer could be causing the grief.

Might be worth looking for something like the wrong shift drum fixing bolt & washer. They appear to be generic items, but they aren't. I've seen a lot of binding issues caused by this and it's always worse in one direction than the other.

I'll definitely check the fixing bolt. Is there any chance that it could be in the clutch. Memory is still leaning toward...I'm not sure that clutch is correct. It was fairly recent that I was into the cases and swapping the shift drum. I want to believe that I would have taken a hard look at the trans before I buttoned it back up. I'm thinking I might just swap in the clutch only from my unmolested Z50 lower end. If it still acts the same than I'll dive into the cases and swap in the complete z trans.



This bike/engine was one of my flood victim bikes. It was one of the first engines I ever opened, and then put back together. It also was in a flood and had the lower end, at least partly filled with water...then sat for years afterward before I got them. Sooo, that's some info that might be pertinent, lol. https://lilhonda.com/webboard/showthread.php?t=13852&highlight=flood+victim
BTW...the bike ran and shifted well for a good long while...3 or 4 good rides, before it first began acting up.
 
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69ST

Well-Known Member
IMO, you're on the right track. It's easy enough to test your clutch theory, may as well begin there.

After reviewing those old pix, can't help but wonder if there isn't some rust, or rust damage, giving that transmission osteoarthritis. And, the shift drum assembly is the most likely location...if that's what has happened.
 

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
The pics are from a different bike...70HK1.
This engine was in FAR better shape. This bike didn't have a oil drain plug in it, so the water wasn't able to stay in the motor, and the motor dried out with just a oil/dirt film on it. The one in the pics STILL had water trapped inside. That one had some real rust in it.
 

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
This afternoon I pulled the clutches out of both engines.
The one in my bike wasn't locking up properly.
The Z50 engine was NOT unmolested, and they did get into the clutch. But everything was in order.

This evening, I made the swap, and got the bike put back together and oiled up...round 2, I had things to do in-between.

Should be ready for a test run next reasonably warm and dry day. Hopefully tomorrow.
 

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
Well it's reasonably warm and dry, and my bike still doesn't shift properly. The clutch is NOT the problem. The star and detent arm looked really good. And the fixing bolt was original and correct. I'ma hafta go inagain :-/ More to come...
 

69ST

Well-Known Member
Well it's reasonably warm and dry, and my bike still doesn't shift properly. The clutch is NOT the problem. The star and detent arm looked really good. And the fixing bolt was original and correct. I'ma hafta go inagain :-/ More to come...

The clutch theory didn't seem possible to me but, there was nothing to lose...and...it would have been a nice save if it had worked. You've tried everything else, starting with the easy stuff...nothing left outside the cases.

As for the weather...ugh. It's been in the mid-50s, cloudy and raining on & off. At least the piles of salt are getting smaller. If the snow holds off until November/December, you'll start seeing classic cars emerging from hibernation sometime after Easter.
 

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
I suppose I invested 3-4 hours into ruling out the clutch once and for all, and into my education, so next time, I'll know it's not a clutch issue.

I brought this bike home and put it in my garage/way, so I would have to deal with it, once and for all. I have a list of things to take care of, including cleaning up a correct set of old grubby hubs...my least favorite job. So...it's on now. I'll make a hole in my work space, big enough to knock this bike half way apart, and get busy. The motor will come apart easy and clean once it's out of the frame. I'll be interested to see if I can spot the problem, it's gotta be somewhere on the trans itself... rust on a shaft, worn dogs... soon find out.

The weather...is NOT here...yet. But it's dang near April. April is a SURE sign of Spring :) The sign says... Winter can't hang on for much longer. Come on, showers and flowers!
 

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
My silvertag continues to give me fits.
I wanted to test the engine, butI needed to clean the bike up before I put the engine back in. So that's what I did. Quick cleanup, reinstalled the motor, still not shifting correctly. So I leaned it over and pulled the clutch cover, clutch, and primary gears. Plan was to replace everything that I had not yet changed. Shift shaft, shift star, clutch release bits.
Shift detent arm was stopped at the high spot on the shift star between 2nd and 3rd gears, shift shaft "pawl" was kinda hangin up on a shift pin, spun the drum with a screwdriver and it moved easily...too easy almost.
When I tried to remove the detent arm, the mount broke out of the engine case...I barely touched it. It was more like I probably broke it when I put it back together last time.

So now I have to clean up another R side engine case to swap in. I'm pretty well over this dang bike. I'll give it one more chance, if it still won't act right, I'll auction it off as a parts bike.

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cjpayne

Well-Known Member
That looks like a nice rider there kirrbby. I get frustrated with them too, but please dont strip that bike.:12:
 

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
Oh no...I would never part it out. But I will sell it as a non running, big ol PITA project bike, and take whatever I get for it. The new owner can part it out if they want. I'll do my bestest, one more time, to get it running right...one more time. Maybe I'll even spent the dollars for a new set of shift forks. That's my last Idea, along with the parts I mentioned. I used to love this bike, now, I'm gonna love to see it go.
 
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