Shifting Issue

Lewy

New Member
I have a 1970 CT70 that has had a full restoration. The motor has been fully rebuilt. When bench testing before putting the flywheel and clutch on it shifts perfectly fine. Starting in Neutral you shift down to go 1-3. When I finish assembly, start it up and drive it suddenly 3rd gear doesn't work. When i shift to 3rd it just Revs up and something is obviously not working. On the bench though it is clearly engaged when shifting to 3rd.


I have another motor sitting on the bench from a later 70's ct-70. It has an up shift pattern 1-3.


Is mine supposed to shift up and not down?

How do I fix 3rd gear?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

-Lewy
 

hrc200x

Active Member
If your motor was original to the frame that shift pattern is correct, neutral all the way up. Yes, later years ct70's were opposite. You can post the VIN numbers off each motor and verify what year it is. I think the up shift change happened somewhere from '74-'76. Is there any grinding when attempting to drive in 3rd gear?
 

darrel gunderson

Active Member
I had one similar a while back. Customer told me before I tore it down no third gear. When I split the cases and looked at third gear, I found the three dogs that engage it to the opposing were all sheared off! Hopefully that's not the case with yours?
 

69ST

Well-Known Member
If the drive dogs are resting on the bottom of the crankcase, time for a new 3rd gear pair & shift forks...at a bare minimum. That's a sign of heavy abuse.

Shouldn't be hard to diagnose that, specific, condition. Pull the flywheel cover and the plastic plug that covers the end of the shift drum. Use the 10mm hex bolt to shift the trans into 3rd gear...it's at the opposite end of the range from neutral and you should feel the detent when it goes into gear. Then attempt to spin the countershaft sprocket, by hand. If the drive dogs are gone, it should freewheel, same as if it were in neutral. OTOH, if 3rd engages normally, then you might not have to split cases to correct the problem.

It could be something as simple as a loose fixing bolt on the shift star, a worn shifter arm, or a missing shift pin in the end of the drum.
 

Lewy

New Member
Thanks for the quick replies guys. I am heading to the garage to pull it back apart now. I had already stripped it back to pulling the clutch and flywheel off and that didn't fix anything.

The most puzzling part is that when I spin the flywheel and shift through the gears 3rd gear engages just fine...When holding the drive sprocket and spinning the flywheel all gears (1,2 and 3) are engaged.....put the clutch on and all back together and it just freewheels in 3rd just like in neutral. I was really trying to avoid splitting the case but it looks like i won't get to the bottom of it until I do.

I'll take some pics along the way and let you know if I have any success. Thanks again!
 

Lewy

New Member
Does anyone happen to have a good picture of how the gears and forks should be aligned properly when I put the transmission together. I have the shop manual but more picture never hurt. Thanks
 

hrc200x

Active Member
Did you originally rebuild the motor or someone else? How much use has it seen since the rebuild? Was the lower end taken apart during the rebuild or just the top end? Your able to spin the flywheel without the clutch on the end of the crank and the counter shaft sprocket turns?

Is the clutch for sure assembled correctly? New plates? Check out this link to test the clutch: TEST YOUR CLUTCH REBUILD,, BEFORE YOU PUT IT BACK ON !!!!!
 

Lewy

New Member
image.jpg

When i pulled the motor and sat it back on the bench I found a good lead. I had pulled the clutch off to bench test the shifting. Again all 3 gears worked. Something possessed me to tilt the motor and I found when tilting to the right, 3rd gear no longer worked......Hell....time to split the case.

Well I tore it all down and split the case. The clutch was fine, gears were fine with no missing teeth. What happened was I somehow wound up short a bushing and thrust washer. The bushing and washer were needed to keep third gear from sliding to the right side of the case and disengaging. I stole the parts from another motor and re-assembled. Took it for a drive and all 3 gears now work perfectly.

This is what happens when you let a project go on too long and didn't take pictures. I forgot exactly how everything goes. At least no damage was done. I'm trying to attach a few pics if possible.
 

Lewy

New Member
image.jpg

Here you can see the bushing and thrust washer on top of the left gear stack. These were missing and causing the issue.
 

69ST

Well-Known Member
Glad to hear it was not broken gear dogs!
My thoughts, exactly. Consider this another course in the school of lifelong education, with very modest tuition. Of course, it's always a good idea to proceed slowly, and consult photos/exploded diagrams until such time as you've gained sufficient experience. That said, becoming an "expert" at this without making mistakes is, imho, impossible. " If you never make mistakes, you're not learning anything". This 1000-mile journey began with a first step and that was having the confidence to give it a shot. The next step is remaining objective enough to figure out where things went pear-shaped, then make the necessary corrections.

Somehow, I get the impression that you will never repeat this same mistake. IOW...you are well on your way:4:
 

Lewy

New Member
Thanks Red 69 those are exactly what went missing.

Thanks for the help racerx you're right I wont make the same mistake again. I've had the motor apart and together enough times lately i can do it without a book now. I scoured the internet looking for exploded diagrams as I was doing this the first few times and also used the repair manual. Most diagrams were helpful but none were really outstanding. Thanks for the positive remarks. I've worked on a lot of different motors big and small but until this year never touched a CT 70. Like you say doing it without a few mistakes is impossible. At least it didn't cost me much more than a little pride and frustration.

Lastly, does anyone have an idea where I can buy the spacer and washer so I can put the other motor back together? HA!
 

OLD CT

Well-Known Member
I see 1975 transmission parts for sale cheap on ebay, maybe have the guy measure the washer in the picture, to be sure. Just saw kirrbby's post, that looks like the ticket. Update! Darrel has one, more better.
 
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red69

Well-Known Member
At Service Honda and Partzilla, that thrust washer is eight times what other sizes are priced. Almost unobtanium?
 
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