to zongshen or not to zongshen!!
- Thread starter dano
- Start date
TrailRyd3r
Member
I've heard they are pretty good, but I've heard that Lifan motors are better.
Lifan is what I use
Lifan is what I use
The best of the PRC motors and by that I mean one that has been on the road for more than 2-3 years and has parts support, is the Z108. The secondary clutch (mounted on the transmission input shaft) model has been around for something like five years now. Haven't heard of many failures and tuning parts are available specifically for this engine.
There may be some good motors in the current crop, but who knows? Many of them are sold as one brand or another, when in fact they're "hybrids" assembled from a mixture of Zongshen, Lifan and who-knows-what-manufacturers parts. There's certainly some cheap engines to be had but, until an engine has been on the market for at least a couple of seasons, there's really no effective way to know which are good value and which are engineered for quick sale.
There may be some good motors in the current crop, but who knows? Many of them are sold as one brand or another, when in fact they're "hybrids" assembled from a mixture of Zongshen, Lifan and who-knows-what-manufacturers parts. There's certainly some cheap engines to be had but, until an engine has been on the market for at least a couple of seasons, there's really no effective way to know which are good value and which are engineered for quick sale.
buellboy
Member
I agree, there seems to be a lot of questions out there that need addressed.
I should be in a position to provide some real world feedback, as soon as the weather warms up. I have modified one of my Lifan 1P52FMH engines with a high flow oil pump, 54mm bore kit, 6.6mm lift cam and high performance springs. This engine is in my 1970 CT70 restomod. Once I get a few miles on it, I will dyno tune and post results.
I have an extra engine for testing as well - listed in the for sale section - that I may end up modding as well for my next project, if someone doesn't want to jump in. Stay tuned.
I should be in a position to provide some real world feedback, as soon as the weather warms up. I have modified one of my Lifan 1P52FMH engines with a high flow oil pump, 54mm bore kit, 6.6mm lift cam and high performance springs. This engine is in my 1970 CT70 restomod. Once I get a few miles on it, I will dyno tune and post results.
I have an extra engine for testing as well - listed in the for sale section - that I may end up modding as well for my next project, if someone doesn't want to jump in. Stay tuned.
Indeed, that's the core of this issue. It's not the Honda fans vs. PRC. As with any other hobby where there's more than one player, each will have it's own devotees. That helps to keep things interesting and there's about as much chance of universal agreement over OEM/repop as there for Coke vs Pepsi.
There have been at least five different configurations of the 1P52FMH engine, sold under at least three different brand names using four different-design cylinders alone
A bit of detective work turned up the basic engine design at more than one PRC manufacturer and the actual engine listed did not match what's been sold. Even contacts inside PRC have been unable to identify them. So the question is: what, exactly, is being marketed?It gets even more interesting. Of the three known dealers (all outside the US) who also tuned these engines, all stopped doing so with this (these?) engine(s). They each found weak spots in them and each claimed to have replaced the unfit parts. None would disclose exactly what changes they made, not that you could blame them for the non-disclosure. So far, every attempt to peer beneath the surface of the mud has just turned up more mud!
The question of "what, exactly is being sold?" never gets answered. With this many outwardly visible variations, so obvious that they are clearly noticeable in tiny web photos, how can you have confidence in the internal components? Again, it's going to take time and experience. I suppose the early adopters are doing the rest of us a good service by testing out new motors.Some have claimed that at $400-600 a pop, disposable engines are the best way to go. That could be true, but not necessarily. If that $400 special becomes a paperweight after 4000 miles, that's 10 cents/mile! For someone who rides 200 miles/year, it's a non-issue. If you ride 3000 miles in a season, it'll not only end up costing more but the odds of being stranded somewhere are pretty high. IMO, the best bet is to ask the questions that are important to you. At least that way you can make an informed decision. The debate will continue, but there's no arguing with real-world experience over time; hindsight is brutally 20-20
TrailPunisher
Member
I have 3 zongers on my machines,two 124cc and one 108cc they take some doing to make everything work but I`m happy with them. Rode another 45 miles today and have over 700 miles now on the CT clone bike with the 124cc.The last 124cc i bought was $300 + $54 shipping to my door. Was a complete kit. I`m trying to break one but have not succeeded yet.I like the smoke chrome cases on the 124cc motors that i have, looks good on a Black bike.I think they are a good deal for the $$$ spent especially if all you want to do is bolt on a motor and go. 
I ride full throttle sustained most of the time on the bike and it handles it so far, 55-58 mph all the time. I have a 14/37 sprocket combo right now. The motors come with 14 tooth countershaft sprockets on them.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/punis...hotos.yahoo.com/ph/punisherjbracing/my_photos
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/punis...hotos.yahoo.com/ph/punisherjbracing/my_photos
I ride full throttle sustained most of the time on the bike and it handles it so far, 55-58 mph all the time. I have a 14/37 sprocket combo right now. The motors come with 14 tooth countershaft sprockets on them.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/punis...hotos.yahoo.com/ph/punisherjbracing/my_photos
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/punis...hotos.yahoo.com/ph/punisherjbracing/my_photos
TrailPunisher
Member
Maybe a clone bike section for answering all these questions is necessary, and lump all the China bike and motor threads into there.
As long as the threads are correctly titled, then this is the right folder. I think there will be quite a bit of interest in PRC-made replacements. Regardless of the longterm results, having the information posted will be a good thing for everyone. Even without considering PRC motors there are several engines from which one can choose, no single unit will be the "best" for every rider. A number of factors come into play regarding engine selection, so the more info the better. Keep it coming
I am in the process of installing a Zongshen 125cc in my 74 CT70. So far I have had to:
1) widen the footpegs...5/8" on the left and 1" on the right
2) cut about 3mm off the lower engine mount on the motor itself. It was too wide
3) move the rear brake light switch...the dip stick will hit it if not moved.
4) ??? haven't even touched the wiring yet...not looking forward to that one.
1) widen the footpegs...5/8" on the left and 1" on the right
2) cut about 3mm off the lower engine mount on the motor itself. It was too wide
3) move the rear brake light switch...the dip stick will hit it if not moved.
4) ??? haven't even touched the wiring yet...not looking forward to that one.
With just a basic understanding of engine wiring, adapting the new engine electrical system isn't difficult as long as the selling dealer provided wiring instructions. You absolutely need to know what each lead from the engine does. Then all you need is a wiring schematic for your bike. Good luck with your project. 
TrailPunisher
Member
www.hooperimports.com has some good 12 volt wiring diagrams for the china motors. You will probably need the Clymer manual to tell you what the wires from your original ignition switch are for.
I remember there were differences in the wiring on the keyed ignition switches from my 1969 parts bike and 1972 CT-70H. I had to de-solder, move and re-solder wires on the back of the key-switch to make the 1969 key switch work on the 1972 bike`s wiring harness.
I remember there were differences in the wiring on the keyed ignition switches from my 1969 parts bike and 1972 CT-70H. I had to de-solder, move and re-solder wires on the back of the key-switch to make the 1969 key switch work on the 1972 bike`s wiring harness.
dano
Member
im planning on using a lifan complete 12v wiring harness for one of thier 110cc motors. but i assume ill need to use the cdi and coil from the zongshen. has anybody ever tried that modification?! these china motors all seem to say they only kick start in neutral?! can you bypass this? and are you able to "bump start" these engines? visiting- how did you have to move the brake light switch is it still on your bike and is it still operational? as i plan to use mine on the road and need the brake light!
TrailPunisher
Member
I can start my zongshen engines in any gear when its up on the kickstand or rolling it downhill. The Zongshen engines cases are wider than most other engines, i had to grind away some metal on the stoplight switch mount and remove the chrome beauty cap on the oil dipstick to be able to get it in and out. Its tight but i can get it in and out. The Zongshen/Lifan/Loncin CDI box and recrifier are the same parts and are pretty much universal 12 volt parts. There are 2 versions of the coils i have seen and either will work. One is similar to the CT-70 style coil while the other is smaller like the Honda XR/CRF-70 dirtbike coils. I installed one of the cdi boxes and CT-style coil on a 2005 XR-70 Honda dirtbike. The coil mounts differently than the smaller XR/CRF-70 coil but I made it work with a small bracket .
TrailPunisher
Member
I got my 124cc engines from E-bay seller discovery2827. E-mail them with an offer if you have a paypal account, it will probably be a little cheaper than paying E-bay fees going through e-bay.dano said:
I have a stock skidplate for an old CT-70 but have not tried it yet, I have been using these chinese pitbike skidplates that E-bay seller Mr Minitrail sells, they are pretty strong and bolt right up. I have won 5 of them and paid anywhere from $19 to $32 for one. He also sells pit bike take-off exhausts with a removable cannister style muffler,they do not have any heat shields on them and are very loud. they fit but you will have to fabricate a mounting bracket to mount the strap style muffler mount to the top shock bolt. I have won 3 of them and paid from $65 to $92 shipped for one.
You willneed to get a set of Chinese clone bike footpegs, these will bolt up to the zongshen engine with maybe a small amount of bending or no bending at all. XR/CRF-70 footpegs will also bolt up to the zongshen engines.
Countershaft drive sprockets from the CT bikes will not work on the 124 cc engines, I think CR-85 sprockets will but i`m not certain.CT countershaft sprockets do interchange on the Lifan and Loncin engines up to 100cc. I cant remember if they do on the Zongshen 108 engine.
I have heard there are some sellers of a high compression piston for these engines, I`m going to wait awhile before doing that modification, i want to test stock durability of the engine first.
www.thumpertalk.com in the pitbike section there is some information about aftermarket parts for chinese engines there.
dano said:
What I did was drill out the spot welds...but just partially. I didn't go right through the frame. Then I used a flat screwdriver and a hammer and knocked it off...gently!!
I haven't actually mounted it yet, but I think I will mount it slightly higher and back. I also made a small cover that will cover the area where the bracket used to be (my frame is already powder coated and the cover will be coated also). I think I may have to put a small washer under the brake bracket so that it sits slightly farther away from the frame. This needs to be done to clear the arm on the brake lever. The spring from the brake switch will run right pas the brake pedal arm. Hope that makes sense.racerx said:With just a basic understanding of engine wiring, adapting the new engine electrical system isn't difficult as long as the selling dealer provided wiring instructions. You absolutely need to know what each lead from the engine does. Then all you need is a wiring schematic for your bike. Good luck with your project.
Problem...I did not receive a wiring diagram from the guy I bought the engine from!! I have tried to get one from him, but he doesn't respond.
I do have a wiring diagram of the stock bike now. But it is looking like I may just use the sub-harnesses that DrAtv has. They look pretty simple. Maybe I'll just sell the new harness I have.