What motor do I have, black manual clutch 4 speed

Discussion in 'CT70 Reproductions' started by hrc200x, Jun 5, 2016.

  1. hrc200x

    hrc200x Active Member

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    Was given a black knock off 4 speed manual clutch motor. NO idea of the CC or what brand, looks like a clean motor other than the fact someone ground down the counter shaft splines and welded a sprocket to the shaft. Seems like it might be worth buying a counter shaft for if they are $25. The Vin is 1P54FMI 51418611
     
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  3. OLD CT

    OLD CT Well-Known Member

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  4. hrc200x

    hrc200x Active Member

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    Thanks, Lifan or other? How do you tell?
     
  5. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    1P54FMI is Lifan nomenclature, "54" refers the the bore size...54mm. Combined with a 55mm crank gives 125cc displacement.

    First time I've heard of anyone welding a sprocket to the countershaft. If there's ever a "Top 5 numbnuts engine kludges" list, this one will be #1.
     
  6. hrc200x

    hrc200x Active Member

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    Guess I can somewhat understanding welding a sprocket to a countershaft if the splines stripped, should get you by for the summer, either way it needs to be split and fixed, whether your fixing the welded shaft or the stripped one, but I don't understand grinding all the splines off, maybe it was a motor for another project to begin with. Funny thing is, the weld didn't stick to the shaft, so the sprocket just spins, must be a little bit of splatter weld holding the sprocket on because I can't pull it off
     
  7. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    Stripped countershaft splines would mean much bigger problems, as in "mondo bizarro":alien: They're made from hardened steel and hardened steel, for practical purposes of this thread discussion, is virtually impossible to weld to a sprocket. That's why the weld didn't "stick", the melting point of the C/S wasn't reached. It also proves that the splines didn't become stripped from riding; they were ground off...a numbnuts move. There are other, basic, reasons why this is unsound practice.

    Without seeing photos, can't recommend anything other than splitting the cases & swapping-in a new countershaft.
     
  8. theraymondguy

    theraymondguy Well-Known Member

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    Zongshen copied much of what Lifan did with their 125, including the model designations. Typically, Zongshens tappet covers are just like Hondas, round with 17mm hex drive. Lifans have bolt on tappet covers (2 bolts).

    Internally, most if not all parts are interchangeable.

    I agree with RacerX, a complete exchange trans is $50, if it runs well and can do your own wrenching its well worth the investment.

    One thing to look for when tearing the engine down, check the cush drive on the clutch basket, the rubbers do commonly fail.
     
    #7 theraymondguy, Jun 7, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
  9. hrc200x

    hrc200x Active Member

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    Believe this motor has the valve cover held on by two 8mm head bolts.

    So these motors didn't copy the honda exactly, they have rubber on the clutch basket?

    here is some pics of the sprocket, upon further inspection the weld stuck to the countershaft, but not to the sprocket, pretty ugly. Plus the two bolt holes in the sprocket are welded up and a bolt sticking out the backside of one of them.
     

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  10. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    Doubtful it's a zonger. The Zongshens hit the US market circa 2000, then completely vanished around `04. Other than a few direct imports, the old z125s (there were two versions) never made it here. The z110 sold for $1K and, for a Chinese knockoff motor, was the cream of the crop. By `03, the feebay race-to-the-bottom was well underway, 110-125cc lumps sometimes under $150; the names came & went within weeks. All except the Lifans turned out to be complete junk. AFAIK the first of the Lifan lineup didn't reach our market until after the Zongers were gone, with virtually no overlap.

    TRG is right, there's been a lot of fast & loose played with the nomenclature. That said, I seriously doubt that you have a zonger. I believe that there's a z155 that was (is?) available, beginning a few years ago, not really sure about the precise timeline. However, it doesn't seem to have gotten any marketplace traction and it cost more $250; I do recall a handful of really mixed reviews. Over the past 10-12 years Lifans have dominated their market, with Jialing being the only other choice, sold under various monikers including YX, GPX, Daytona, etc. At least some L110/125 motors have the screw-in type tappet covers. All that we know, to a certainty, (based on the SN) is that those cases were destined for a motor with a 54mm bore. It doesn't indicate anything else, like which head, crank, clutch, tranny was factory-installed. That number tag was a paper decal, long gone. At one time, a number of fleebay-by-night sellers cobbled-together oddball engines using surplus/odd lot parts, including case halves. IMO, yours is too new to worry about this.

    That welding is far fuglier than I had imagined. IMHO, that countershaft is scrap metal. TRG is right about the clutch baskets. They copied the Honda Nice/Wave design...loosely....kindasorta; in a word, poorly. The Honda clutch basket used damping springs, which don't fail but, those cost more than rubber pucks.
     
  11. hrc200x

    hrc200x Active Member

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    Before making this thread I was scanning through dratv and seen he had lifan engine parts and a counter shaft, now that I get ready to put a order in and reading a little closer his counter shaft isn't for a lifan 125 that had a 54x54 bore/stroke. Any idea where this part might be available? The motor seems to turn over and shift through the gears, noticed a little bit of leakage at the intake valve as the piston came up on the compression stroke, will probably need to take valves out and lap them, the rocker had play in it, so it wasn't to tight.
     
  12. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    This has been a perennial problem with Chinese engines...getting the right internal parts. AFAIK, the L110/125 shares the same lower end, sorta like the Z50 and various 72cc flavors, including CT70. Problem is verifying what you have and what parts you're considering; without a dealership network, OEM parts catalogs and, the aforementioned vague model IDs it's clear as mud(!). Seems to me that TBolt is a Lifan vendor, I'd give `em a shout.
     

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