Which CT70 and what to look for?

Discussion in 'Projects/Builds' started by Antho11, May 21, 2017.

  1. Antho11

    Antho11 New Member

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    Hey, I'm new to the forums so I'm sorry if I'm posting in the wrong section. I'm going to potentially buy a Honda Ct70 and I was wondering what I should look for. I'm planning on doing a restauration but not to complete stock form, I also have all the tools and mechanical knowledge required. Any issues to look for which can be hidden?

    These are the ones I'm interested in and I'm going to provide a translation of the ad.

    This one has just had the engine rebuilt and is still breaking in. It has just been repainted and the muffler is new.

    http://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?adId=1261932559&requestSource=b


    Next. This one only runs when the choke is on and needs some carb adjustments.

    http://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?adId=1265135116&requestSource=b


    Next. This one has a 125cc and upgraded rear shocks.

    http://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?adId=1255469934&requestSource=b


    Next. This one isn't running and supposedly is due to the points ignition.

    http://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?adId=1266029952&requestSource=b


    Next. This one needs a brake job for it to be rideable.
    $500

    http://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?adId=1266008531&requestSource=b


    Next. This one runs.
    http://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?adId=1266046367&requestSource=b

    Thank you for your help!
     
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  3. MartinM54

    MartinM54 Active Member

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    #2 MartinM54, May 22, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2017
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  4. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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    Those are all priced similarly, the most complete bikes are probably the best bargains. Look for stripped kick shafts and levers...warbled out motor mounts...stripped spark plug threads and foot bar mount threads...exhaust rotted under asbestos grommet of large heat guard...mouse nest on top of engine inside of frame...bent front fork legs...cracks in frame anywhere...broken fins on cylinder head...missing vin, tag or stamp...missing key...rusty fuel tank...filthy oil...extra-drilled holes in frame. It's always good if you want to remove the cover and look at the flywheel and stator for breaks and rust and damaged wires.
     
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  5. Antho11

    Antho11 New Member

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  6. kirrbby

    kirrbby Well-Known Member

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    It's 125cc's of cheap Chinese. That makes it worth less IMO. On that particular bike, make sure they got the lighting wired up correctly.
     
  7. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    First step is establishing a clear goal, what do you want from the bike? How far will it deviate from stock and in what ways? If you're looking for a roadworthy, customized, machine then what you start with will be different than if you wanted purist-correct perfection. Earlier models have fewer equipment requirements and tend to be easier to title, plate & insure. The most collectible bikes are pre `73 models. `73 & later have progressively longer lists of "unobtainium" parts, unique to their respective model years and thus they can be more difficult to complete, unless you're willing to make further alterations. K0 (`69-`71) frames are the only ones prone to developing stress cracks; K1 & later all have one-piece internal bracing around the motor mounts. 4-speed/manual clutch engines went away after `72, with the last of the K1s.

    You do want to look for bending, especially rear upper shock mounts and the rear section of the frame being offset. Both are signs of heavy abuse and difficult to repair. Also look for rust. Most frames will have light surface rust ad that's no big deal. What you should avoid is any frame with rust perforations in the rear wheel arch or, especially, along the underside of the tank area. This type of deep rust affects structural strength. Check the fork legs; if they're bent, it means the bike has been crashed...hard. Bent rims are another sign of abuse. Check fork action. K0s have mechanical pogo stick legs, the internals can wear out, allowing a lot of slop and the lowers usually rust. The worn pieces can be replaced, they're readily available. Chrome is expensive. K1-later are hydraulic...weak action can mean they're worn, or more likely, leaking. Looks for traces of oil and note the highest point where they're seen. Leakage at the axle is very difficult to correct.

    Additional input, from you, would be useful. Sometimes the initial purchase prices has little to do with what you'll have to spend to complete the project as you've envisioned. It'd take a LOT of explanation to turn a newcomer into a seasoned expert. The more specific info you can provide, the better we can advise...there are still no guarantees, especially from photos alone. However, a bit of Q&A can give you a nice headstart.
     
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  8. Ponytail

    Ponytail Active Member

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    Hello fellow Northerner:canada:!!! Take your time buying a bike. Follow the wise advice of the long time members of LH. The CT prices seem pretty reasonable in Quebec. If you need to find a Canadian parts supplier let me know.
     
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  9. Antho11

    Antho11 New Member

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    I can't thank you guys enough for all your help on CT70s! If you need any help with radio control vehicles just ask! I'm looking to build a bike that I can take out on the trail and performs well with enough power, also reliable. I want to slowly fix the cosmetics and make it look good, fix all the corrosion and clean up parts. I don't want a garage queen but I want to make it look good. With time I would like to change the shocks for better performing ones and a potential 125cc swap. Does the stock 70cc have enough umph to take out on trails and climb small hills? What's the top speed with the 70cc? Is the big bore conversion a better choice than a 125cc? I'm not looking to turn it back to original, I'd like to add some aftermarket parts. I'm not sure if this is enough info and I'm looking forward to here back.
     
  10. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    The more you intend to change, the less complete the original bike has to be as your starting point. That covers a vast amount of gray area. Generally speaking, incomplete bikes tend to bring a lot less money than complete, running, machines. The more you intend to refinish, the less aesthetics matter. A fugly, but straight & structurally sound, bike should be cheaper than one that is okay, or better. Paint, chrome, and replacement parts are all-or-nothing propositions. If you plan to repaint the bike, candy colors are a complicated world apart from conventional metallics & solid colors. How true-to-original do you want it to be? It's possible to build a restomod, or custom, that looks nice, performs better than any stocker and is instantly recognizable as a CT70...that is clearly non-stock. You have to decide if that's what you want. Again, the further you deviate from stock, the less things like color and OEM parts matter. If you're going to replace the front end, swingarm, engine and exhaust with aftermarket versions, that'll take the build far outside the parameters of a purist-collector type of machine. The most seriously roadworthy machines fall into this category.

    As for horsepower requirements, how fast does this bike need to be? A stock CT70, in tiptop running condition should top-out in the low 40mph range, giving a usable speed range up to 30-35mph. That's plenty for trail riding. The easiest and most popular tuning setup is the 88C bore-up kit. In it's most basic form...everything else left stock...you'll gain a little more usable grunt and maybe 3-5mph, which won't make much difference offroad. Add a cam, carb, exhaust and 50mph+ is possible, which still won't affect trail use very much; torque output will be close to stock. It's when you step-up to 110cc+ that things change dramatically. That's where you'll gain enough hp & torque to keep pace with suburban traffic...far more than can be used offroad; this makes sense for a dual-sport machine.

    Higher speeds mean the suspension will have to work harder. Upgraded rear shocks are a good place to begin, regardless, unless you weight less than ~130lbs. As for the rest of the suspension, that depends upon how far you want to take the performance upgrades. From what you've posted, so far, I'd say stay away from the K0/HK0. K1-later all have much better, hydraulic, forks and those can setup to handle 50-ish speeds reasonably well for not much money.

    Engine options range from 49cc to 190cc. At this late date, they're virtually all Chinese knockoffs...cheap horsepower, just not a free lunch. Quality is what one should expect for a price that's "too good to be true". Haven't seen many surpass the 5K mile mark and they tend to have rough edges in the form of heavy vibration & shift quality; but, that might not matter to you.

    IMO, this should be approached as a process of gradual refinement, beginning with the planning stage. A "paint-by-numbers" process, it isn't...
     
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  11. Antho11

    Antho11 New Member

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    That's some really good advice! I'm going to look at a Honda Z50 tonight and hopefully I'll buy it. It's really complete but missing a few easy to find parts. Slowly but surely whatever I get wether a Z50 or CT70 I plan on slowly making it what I want.
     
  12. racerx

    racerx Administrator
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    A lot of guys build both. Be aware, going in, that the Z50 is a lot smaller. The shorter wheelbase, lighter weight, and smaller wheels all work against you in every parameter, except ease of transport. Getting the same level of roadworthiness, suspension performance, and rider comfort, is much more difficult than with it's larger CT70 cousin.
     

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