Will a Bridgestone ML 16 tire 4.00-10 fit on a stock CT 70 swingarm

Drew

Member
I'm trying to find out if Bridgestone ML 16 4.00-10 tire will fit on my stock CT 70 swingarm.I found out they are rated at 18.4" tall compared to the 17" Trail wing tires.I realize I will more than likely need a longer chain to try an accomodate the bigger tire.I have a Lifan 125 engine on it that I can put in 4 th gear at 25 mph and run it up to 50 mph on the stock Trail wings,just wanting another 5 mph,if possible.
 
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Deoodles

Well-Known Member
Yes the ML-16 will fit the ct70. I don't think they are really that tall in real life. You may get the extra 5 mph with just a gearing change. Hitting 4th at 25 makes me think your gearing is short. What gears are you running.
 

69ST

Well-Known Member
Hey Drew, they'll fit, I've used them on stock wheels no problem. The "rated" size is close to what I've verified and about ~3.5% taller than the 4.00-10 `Wing. That's enough to noticeably affect gearing and speedo/odo readings. I've posted side-by-side photos showing the ML16/Trailwing/ML17, in recent threads.

Beware, Bridgestone, in their "wisdom" unceremoniously discontinued the ML17 front last year. The ML16 is listed as a rear tire but not "rear only" (the 17 is marked "front use only") and no one seems to have an answer as to its suitability for the front. Kind of a shame, imho, the MLs tread life is a guesstimated 3-4X that of a `Wing.
 

Drew

Member
Great,and thank you for your time.I have been searching for a taller tire and have gotten the same size tire as the trail wing.I have read and seen several of your post on here,good to actually talk to someone that has owned both and knows the difference between them.
 

Drew

Member
I'm running 16 and 35 sprockets,I was saying that I can put it in 4th at 25 mph but I don't need to,I just wanted to let you know that I don't have to run it up to high rpm's and shift to make it go up to 50 mph.My actual top speed is 54 mph.I would like to get my top speed close to 60 mph so when I'm cruising at 45 mph the rpm's are not to high,and can go for an hour ride without overheating engine.
 

69ST

Well-Known Member
I think you're undergeared and gearing should be approached as a separate issue, except as affected by tire size. For the street, optimal gearing should pair top speed with the engine spinning peak hp rpm...ideally, on paper. Reality is oftentimes a little different. Top speed potential is strictly a matter of engine horsepower, it's a reliably accurate "poor man's dyno". If the engine only makes enough hp to reach 54mph, no gearing change will increase that...without a steep, descending, grade and a tailwind. Best guess, your L125 should be able to top out close to 60mph, under ideal conditions. There's some trial & error testing/tuning in your future, if you want to be sure of dialing-in the sprocket combo. Lifans come in a number of different flavors and I don't often work with them.

You want to be within ~3% of what the engine can pull. Any taller and the bike will feel weak in top gear, when dealing with slight headwinds and even modest grades. Much shorter and the engine will feel "busy" at high cruising speeds. You may not yet realize it but, 200-300rpm can make a noticeable difference as the miles roll along. If the engine runs out of revs at 54mph, I'd estimate gearing is close to 6mph/1000rpm, in fourth gear...waaaay too low for what you want. The motor should make enough torque to pull ~7.25-7.5mph/1000rpm. From what I've seen, 110-125 Lifans reach peak power in the 7500rpm range and run out of breath in the low-mid 8000s...if the spec sheets are accurate. I'd start with 17/35; that should give you another 3.5mph. If the motor pulls it easily, the next step would be 17/34...which should increase top speed by ~5.5mph, (over what you have now) if the engine will pull it. Can't recall anyone using a 17/33 sprocket combo with an L125 but, perhaps there's a Lifan veteran reading this who knows better.

As for sustainable rpm and overheating, neither is really related to gearing. Carburetor tuning (jetting) and state of break-in are the critical parameters. Below the 1000-mile mark, expect the engine to run hot, below 500 miles...smokin' hot and those temps will peak at sustained speeds above 45-50mph. If you want to keep the engine healthy, for as long as possible, break it in properly and choose oil based on peak operating temp (which may require a long warmup, before really leaning into it), monitor temps with a dipstick oil thermometer; 20W50 gets the nod as long as oil temp exceeds 90C. And keep the oil clean. That means regular oil changes, based on total mileage and usage, along with servicing the oil spinner at least every 1K miles/yearly whichever comes first.
 

Drew

Member
Hi,I have been busy with the CT 70, I sold a amplifier on EBay and used the money to buy a even newer motor.It now has a Piranha 140 on it and I got the Bridestone ML16 installed also"they are actually only 3/4 of an inch taller than the stock Tail wing tires" but with the new more powerful motor I just hit 68 mph with it,Garmin GPS verified.I seen the YouTube videos ONLY showing a top speed of 61 mph,I will have to make another and upload it again,lol.My first was with the Lifan 125. Modified CT 70 with dad doing wheelies-was my first YouTube video.and also I would give a lot of thanks to the guys at tbolt for there help and useful info.P.S is there anyone else that has hit that 68 mph on there CT 70?
 

Drew

Member
LOL I hear you,running that fast on a mini is like doing 120 on a sport bike.I also noticed at high rpm it shoots out some oil from the vent tube,I think I need to add a front vent tube.
 

69ST

Well-Known Member
Beyond 60-65mph is really pushing it with bikes this small & lightweight, regardless of suspension & braking upgrades. I've seen ~80mph, on a few really well setup customs, and it wasn't as much fun as you might think, while reading about it. You're right, Drew, it felt more like 180mph. At one time, that might have been (mildly) boast-worthy. Fifteen years ago, a legit 60mph was quite an achievement, roughly equivalent to the old British standard of "doing the ton" on a fullsize machine. 2002 was a long time ago.

For that matter, the aforementioned 4.00-10 ML16 tire is "J"-rated, 62mph. That, alone, speaks volumes.
 

Drew

Member
If the ML16 is J rated 62 mph,then what is the trailwing tire rated at that I've been running 63 mph with lol.and I have a just broke in 100% stock engine with a $15.00 China carb on it and the exhaust has been upgrade to flow better,and ported and polished the intake nothing else,except an oil cooler.
 

OLD CT

Well-Known Member
LOL I hear you,running that fast on a mini is like doing 120 on a sport bike.I also noticed at high rpm it shoots out some oil from the vent tube,I think I need to add a front vent tube.

Lower the oil level. You must be running with a little ''too much'' oil in it even if you are perfectly at the ''full'' mark, it may be too much. Go with the same as a CT70, around 3/4 of a quart and re test. Just a little more if you run a cooler.
 

69ST

Well-Known Member
If the ML16 is J rated 62 mph,then what is the trailwing tire rated at that I've been running 63 mph with lol.and I have a just broke in 100% stock engine with a $15.00 China carb on it and the exhaust has been upgrade to flow better,and ported and polished the intake nothing else,except an oil cooler.

You'll be hard-pressed to find a ten-inch tire that carries anything higher than "J" speed rating. That includes the Trailwing.

Careful with those daredevil speed boasts, in excess of the tire's rating. You never know when the tire police might be trolling the interwebs...:busted_blue:
 

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
If the ML16 is J rated 62 mph,then what is the trailwing tire rated at that I've been running 63 mph with lol.and I have a just broke in 100% stock engine with a $15.00 China carb on it and the exhaust has been upgrade to flow better,and ported and polished the intake nothing else,except an oil cooler.

You've been goin 63 with a stock WHAT engine? CT70? C'mon now...Pics, or it didn't happen.

Oh...I see it now. A 125cc lifan stock engine. lol. If they're selling 125cc's for a CT70 I'd say it had better do 63.
 
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fatcaaat

Well-Known Member
I am a big fan of the ML tire series, and like Racerx, very disappointed that they nixed the front. I run these on 3 of my bikes...the other bikes all have trailwings.

As for top speed on a CT70, well, i've been into the 80's on more than one bike on more than one occasion and I can attest it's not all that great. What is great, instead, is having a setup I can do 55mph all day on, including the most grueling hills and the pushiest of headwinds. That, to me, became my measuring stick after realizing that top speed is not all that important because you only do that less than 1% of your total time in the saddle...old age finally kicked in there.

funny thing, and Racerx tends to agree, that regardless of the build of the engine...stock honda nice, converted 110's, modified engines out to 184cc, stock 125's 140's, 150's, 160;s and everything in between regardless of what flavor, make, configuration, cam, carb, etc etc etc...when you ride one configured correctly, you'll settle into cruising between 50-55mph. My one bike is fully capable of cruising 62mph all day without hurting it...but it still settles in around 55. If you find yourself riding it and not comfortable with the engine buzzing at 50mph, you probably have it incorrectly geared.
 

Drew

Member
I think you're undergeared and gearing should be approached as a separate issue, except as affected by tire size. For the street, optimal gearing should pair top speed with the engine spinning peak hp rpm...ideally, on paper. Reality is oftentimes a little different. Top speed potential is strictly a matter of engine horsepower, it's a reliably accurate "poor man's dyno". If the engine only makes enough hp to reach 54mph, no gearing change will increase that...without a steep, descending, grade and a tailwind. Best guess, your L125 should be able to top out close to 60mph, under ideal conditions. There's some trial & error testing/tuning in your future, if you want to be sure of dialing-in the sprocket combo. Lifans come in a number of different flavors and I don't often work with them.

You want to be within ~3% of what the engine can pull. Any taller and the bike will feel weak in top gear, when dealing with slight headwinds and even modest grades. Much shorter and the engine will feel "busy" at high cruising speeds. You may not yet realize it but, 200-300rpm can make a noticeable difference as the miles roll along. If the engine runs out of revs at 54mph, I'd estimate gearing is close to 6mph/1000rpm, in fourth gear...waaaay too low for what you want. The motor should make enough torque to pull ~7.25-7.5mph/1000rpm. From what I've seen, 110-125 Lifans reach peak power in the 7500rpm range and run out of breath in the low-mid 8000s...if the spec sheets are accurate. I'd start with 17/35; that should give you another 3.5mph. If the motor pulls it easily, the next step would be 17/34...which should increase top speed by ~5.5mph, (over what you have now) if the engine will pull it. Can't recall anyone using a 17/33 sprocket combo with an L125 but, perhaps there's a Lifan veteran reading this who knows better.

As for sustainable rpm and overheating, neither is really related to gearing. Carburetor tuning (jetting) and state of break-in are the critical parameters. Below the 1000-mile mark, expect the engine to run hot, below 500 miles...smokin' hot and those temps will peak at sustained speeds above 45-50mph. If you want to keep the engine healthy, for as long as possible, break it in properly and choose oil based on peak operating temp (which may require a long warmup, before really leaning into it), monitor temps with a dipstick oil thermometer; 20W50 gets the nod as long as oil temp exceeds 90C. And keep the oil clean. That means regular oil changes, based on total mileage and usage, along with servicing the oil spinner at least every 1K miles/yearly whichever comes first.
I have not been on here for along time now,over a year.What do you refer to as servicing the oil spinner,I have never had my motor apart.Motor is running good and strong,about 800 miles on it.
 
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69ST

Well-Known Member
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The oil spinner is mounted to the end of the crankshaft, RH side, beneath the clutch cover. With stock CT70/Z50 motors, it's the chamber inside the clutch center, behind the throwout bearing flange. If your current motor has a secondary-mounted clutch, then the oil spinner will be a dedicated assembly on the crankshaft.
 

Drew

Member
View attachment 57356 View attachment 57357 The oil spinner is mounted to the end of the crankshaft, RH side, beneath the clutch cover. With stock CT70/Z50 motors, it's the chamber inside the clutch center, behind the throwout bearing flange. If your current motor has a secondary-mounted clutch, then the oil spinner will be a dedicated assembly on the crankshaft.
I used a Lifan 125,but now have a Piranha 140 engine- do they have the same oil spinner you are talking about,and what does it actually do?Not the oil pump is it,with the plastic gear inside.
 

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69ST

Well-Known Member
What you should find beneath the clutch cover is a dedicated oil spinner, i.e. that's all it does, at the end of the crankshaft. It's a centrifuge. Oil gets pump into the spinner, the debris (like metal particles and clutch disc material), being heavier than oil, gets flung to the outside, where it (mostly) remains trapped. Once the chamber is filled, by the oil pump, the clean oil, which is lighter, flows to the rest of the engine...roughly half through the crankshaft, the other half toward the top end. Once the engine stops running, some of that garbage will settle to the bottom of the spinner...and a portion of it will get circulated throughout the engine the next time it's fired. The setup works surprisingly well...if serviced periodically. First cleaning should be done around the 300-mile mark. After that, I go by every 1000 miles, or annually (just prior to parking the bike for the winter) whichever comes first.
 

Drew

Member
I looked it up on YouTube and found it for my motor- YX 140 and seen what you are talking about,I was thinking about adding a inline filter on the return line of my oil cooler.Also I change my oil way early,like after 6 hours of riding,but I still get the nice metallic paint looking partials,which is metal and clutch crap.Why can't you put a hole in the cap of the spinner to let the crap flow out?Just thought I would ask,lol.I have NO clue what it does,or why oil collects inside it.
 
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