Brand new frames for sale?

dennis d

dennis d

120cc
If anyone is interested in purchasing one of these frames one thing to consider is what you are going to do for a vin #. I ran into this on another project where Honda had changed the frame out on a warranty issue but the new frame did not have no #'s.They would not transfer the old # or give me the old frame.Just something to think about.:yellow70:
 
MSZ

MSZ

Moderator
The above poster is correct. New Honda replacement frames do not come with a VIN. They come blank which can lead to problems if you don't legally get the VIN swapped over from your frame that was damaged. Check your State and Local laws on how this needs to be done folks.
 
J

John Pond

Member
dennis d said:
If anyone is interested in purchasing one of these frames one thing to consider is what you are going to do for a vin #. I ran into this on another project where Honda had changed the frame out on a warranty issue but the new frame did not have no #'s.They would not transfer the old # or give me the old frame.Just something to think about.:yellow70:
Click to expand...

One other thing, at least on the 12v frames. The replacement frames are made without a piece of backing metal in the headstock so that they can't be stamped. I believe the earlier frames are the same.

In California, you have to take the old and new frames to the CHP and if they are satisfied they will destroy the old frame and rivet a "blue tag" to the new frame. A real mess as you could end up losing both frames...

However, there are always ways to be creative...

Cheers!

John
 
J

John Pond

Member
I guess i didn't explain it well.

If you look at your headstock, you'll see it is a tube that the right and left sheet metal frames are welded over. This leaves a gap of about 3/16" between the outside of the tube and the inside of the frame in the area where the VIN is stamped. The factory does this deliberately so that you can't stamp a VIN without crushing the sheet metal.

On originally issued frames (complete bikes with VINs) the factory welded a rectangular piece of metal in that space so that they could be stamped. If you ever cut one apart you'll see it.

I only have direct experience with 1981 and up frames. Earlier could be different.

I also never found a perfect match for the font Honda used for stamping. Something close, so you'd have to hope for a not too observant inspector.

And lastly, probably none of this is legal, so it probably shouldn't really be discussed on a public forum.

Probably.

Cheers!

JOhn
 
H

hecklerkoch

Member
Im not sure what kind of die they used to stamp it but Im sure a close match can be found. Also I have noticed that the numbers on different frames often look different so Honda was not very consistent. In fact looking at my frame I can see that two different styles of dies were used on the last four numbers.

Best bet I think would be to title the bike and get it inspected (if necessary) using your old frame. Then stamp the new one and switch everything over and destroy the old frame.

On my 72 frame there is no extra reinforcing metal behind the stamped area John and the stamped vin looks rather light and sloppily done.

I know in the world of vintage jet ski's this is done pretty often when a hull has been wrecked and a "new" old one is acquired that doesnt have a title. On those machines the VIN is stamped into a plastic plate which makes it pretty easy.

I dont see why we cant feel free to discuss this topic as much as we want. Afterall we can not be arrested for thought crime or at least not yet.
 
makotosun

makotosun

Member
If you have a title to the old frame, you should have no issues.

Take the old frame title and go to your local state police office and explain what you want to do. They will have a procedure for this as it is what would have to be done if the bike were rebuilt by a Honda shop after a wreck. You MAY and up with a "rebuilt" or "salvage" type of title, though your state may be different.

You also may end up with a state issued VIN which will be non-standard, but will be perfectly legal. I believe in Cali, you can get a VIN transferred to a new frame, but I do not know the procedure.

If you just get the frame, and re-number it with the old number, I suspect that is some sort of crime in most every state. If you hae a legal title and need to do this, get it done right or you run some severe risks including losing the bike, criminal charges, etc. etc.

If you do inquire, post the results of your state so others can benefit!
 
J

John Pond

Member
makotosun said:
If you have a title to the old frame, you should have no issues.

Take the old frame title and go to your local state police office and explain what you want to do. They will have a procedure for this as it is what would have to be done if the bike were rebuilt by a Honda shop after a wreck. You MAY and up with a "rebuilt" or "salvage" type of title, though your state may be different.

You also may end up with a state issued VIN which will be non-standard, but will be perfectly legal. I believe in Cali, you can get a VIN transferred to a new frame, but I do not know the procedure.

If you just get the frame, and re-number it with the old number, I suspect that is some sort of crime in most every state. If you hae a legal title and need to do this, get it done right or you run some severe risks including losing the bike, criminal charges, etc. etc.

If you do inquire, post the results of your state so others can benefit!
Click to expand...

In the world of the hypothetical...

It all depends on whether you want a "blue-tag bike" in California. If you try to transfer the VIN with the State's approval, they will create a "blue tag" which is a VIN tag that gets riveted by the CHP to the frame. Large, ugly, and up to the discretion of the officer as to where it gets placed. Rarely in an aesthetic spot. Only a problem if you go to sell your bike, as it would definitely hurt its value. I am assuming that if you went to the trouble of getting a new frame you would care about its value.

You can get Honda to "issue" a new VIN for the frame through your dealer. However, it is only a decal and worthless here in CA.

Again, in the realm of the hypothetical, I would imagine that the most successful method for changing frames would be to get an old frame titled and registered, then cut out the metal with the VIN on the old frame and TIG it into the new frame. Depending on the skill of the person doing the cutting and welding, it should be undetectable short of x-ray. Of course, you would destroy the old frame after you were done (which wouldn't make this any more legal but would at least keep with the spirit of only one frame with a given VIN).

Cheers!

John
 
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