Ignition problems, need help please?

Hello. I recently acquired a 1971 KO/CT70 that had been sitting since the 80's in a lean to shed. Ive replaced some parts to get it up and running but ran into some other problems while hearing and riding it for the first time. So here is a little back ground on the bike and whats been done/replaced.

Engine would wouldn't turn over due to stuck/rusted ex. valve. I've replaced the head complete with piston kit and cylinder and all gaskets and associated with that procedure. Also replaced the carb with an equivalent and seems ok? Maybe need a bigger MJ? Its a K73 but was thinking the next step up? Next the trans didn't want to stay in gear. Found out the PO converted it from a KO to a KOH 3spd, lol! Found screw loose on the shift drum cam. Fixed that and replace clutch. I figured I'd check and clean the points. Glad I did, they weren't bad but was able to clean them up and look nice now. Timing is set for both static and dynamic, verified with timing light. Ive also replaced the chain and sprockets, tires & tubes, main wiring harness, ing. swt./key, battery and other little things.

So heres my problem that I don't know where to start?
The bike will have spark and run, only if I unplug the batteries harness from the main harness. The fuse is good, 7A. All the connections are mostly new and connected with die/grease. All connections are covered/protected from grounding.
Verified the connector to the stator/Alt is not grounded or melted to another, the bike runs and rides, head light, horn and dimmer all work in POS 2 on ing/swt.

What gives? Any questions, help, advise or "F-OFF's" are welcome.

Thank you

The correct ignition and harness will ''not spark'' with the battery out of the loop due to not having the black jumper wire loop. A normal setup needs the black loop on the ''battery harness'' to get spark. Running the bike without the battery will blow out your bulbs in no time. The headlight bulb will go first, be careful. Keep the headlight off till you get this sorted. I would make sure you have the correct KO harness and ignition, and KO battery for starters. Do the battery connections match the harness? I have seen battery's wired wrong also.

We don't insult new members for asking honest questions...get a few hundred posts under your belt, first, then maybe we'll see.:34:

All kidding aside, some PO may have cobbled the wiring in the dim & distant past. The kill switch function is achieved by ground the primary ignition coil, via the keyswitch. Best educated guess is that the primary ignition lead is connected to the battery circuit. You strike me as well-accomplished with the repair side of things so, I'd suggest at least pulling the harness from the keyswitch and tracing the leads, schematic in hand, from the modular plug at the keyswitch back to the battery.

Alternatively, you could test for continuity between the primary ignition output (from the stator pigtail) and the battery leads. There should only be continuity between the ground (-), none on the (+) when the key is in the "off" position. A continuity signal, while the key is in any other position means that the primary coil circuit is (incorrectly) connected to the battery circuit.

Hi guys and thank you for the replies.

Well, I went through my receipts and also checked on Dr.ATV's inter webs, I did order KO/HKO harness and KO/HKO Ignition switch. But I just checked what I got on the bike and I have a KO Ign.Swt. and a HKO main harness with the two black wires and the battery has the one blue wire doubled back to the other pin. Hope that makes sense? So i checked as I said his web site and he's got no other info for the KO harness or Ign Swt. other than its KO/HKO only. No selection for one or other.
So I guess i'll need to try to contact them and find out whats the next step other than just getting another harness coming. His web site regarding contacting them looks like they've been inundated with NimNits and hands needing held. Is there a way to mod this harness?
I'll check out the battery connector connections. I got the Battery at one of the stupid Batteries+Bulbs place. It was the only place in all of PDX Metro to have one!

On a side note. For originality, should I convert it back to a simi-auto and is it doing harm now that theres a clutch?

I'll update with findings or results.

Thanks, Josh

Reproduction wire harnesses have been on the market for 15+ years, now and I've never seen one that was defective. While it's possible that there's a short, or mistake, somewhere inside the main harness bundle, I'd want to save the unwrapping for the final stage...after you've ruled-out everything else. Since this engine has been modified, the problem could, conceivably, be at the stator. Pulling the flywheel, for a peek at the stator wiring, at the source, is easier than open-heart surgery on the wire harness.

Running a manual clutch, on a 3-speed, won't hurt anything...as long as all of the parts are there and installed correctly. If you prefer the manual clutch, over the semi-auto, may as well enjoy the upgrade and save yourself time & money converting it back

Fixed!!!

Ok guys. Got it figured out and repaired!
I checked the continuity on black wire from Ign./Swt. to the stators plug black wire and to the batts connector also at coil primary black wire. ALL HAD continuity in any switch position. Wrong!

So I split the harness open to find that all black wires had been connected in the harness. WTF!!! I cut the two wires for coil and Ign and reconnected, tested and works great!

BTW, I did reach out to DrATV and did get a response back but they basically just repeated what I asked back to me in their email? They also iterated that they get hundreds of emails a day and they didn't have enough info to help me and said we need more info, "THANKS!"

But, just goes to show that if you want something done/fixed, do it yourself. Which I prefer.
Thanks for the replies and info, it really helped me narrow this down.
I'll get some pics up of the bike.

"Running a manual clutch, on a 3-speed, won't hurt anything...as long as all of the parts are there and installed correctly. If you prefer the manual clutch, over the semi-auto, may as well enjoy the upgrade and save yourself time & money converting it back"

I kind of like the manual clutch. The gearing is different I bet but yeah, its fun for now. Maybe leaving it for now and enjoying.

Congrats, you must be one happy camper right about now. :4:

That's kinda what I thought you'd find. I've done more custom wiring in the past few years than I'd have cared to do....wa-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-ay more:43: Some of the conversions have been really elaborate and they have included 3, 4, 5, 6 & 7-wire harness/switch adaptation. After a while, you develop almost a sixth sense (well, maybe 5[SUP]1/2[/SUP] would be closer to the truth).:21:

I've yet to see a reproduction wire harness that was quite as well assembled as an original. But, they're pretty good and quite inexpensive, to say the least. My biggest gripe has been, and remains, the lack of solder used for the splices. It's good practice, though not absolutely essential, to unwrap for inspection & soldering. Would you have caught the error? Probably not, since you had no reason to suspect it. Best advice I can offer is for folks to break out the continuity tester and check the new harness on the bench, while it's still easy. There could be a bad run of these things out there that will start showing-up at other vendors, too. They won't know to look, either. Nor will it be practical for them to check a bunch of them, let alone every one, before shipment. Let's hope that this was just a one-off.

I won't claim the the `doc is perfect, nor make excuses for bci. And they'll never be able to afford the staff needed to allow the kind of tech support/advice you get here. However, in the past ~20 years, they've been good to deal with and, above all, honest. The few problems I've encountered they've taken care of quickly and in good faith, imho. I know, that doesn't erase what just happened to you. Still, I'd suggest giving the benefit of the doubt.

When it comes to servicing, repairing, restoring & modifying vintage machinery, ultimately it comes down to the guy spinning the wrenches (or, in this case, wielding the electrical equipment)...always will be. It can be frustrating, at times. Look at the bright side, if all else fails, I know where you can go for usable advice...:3:

Shit yeah I am! I mean, its nice to have some closure to a project. And after the help here and just digging in, hah, these wiring harnesses are a snap compared to the VW TDI harness I made for my VW Single cab Synchro. Even that wasn't too hard.

I was not surprised to see the wire crimps and no soldier. I just cut, stripped :5:, and soldiered with heat shrink. I know now that its a proper connection. Ohh! I did get a chance to use some of my nice Mercedes wiring wrap. Hells yeah, its nice!

I am sending a reply to the email i got from DrATV with my findings and let them know to maybe check their inventory?
I'm not going to let this parts issue spoil my ties with DrATV. I like the fact that he's already figured out what you need for conversion parts to our bikes or he shared others combinations of parts to make DrATV's parts work. Not to mention, he also gives you a much broader bike parts selection and what parts are compatible. I like that. He's done the research for us.
Trust me, I've see all the other BIG Honda 70 parts suppliers. They leave a lot unknown for parts compatibility with stock or modifying. I've had lots of bikes in the past, mostly two stroke triple street bikes, and finding parts was not as easy as it is now.
Thats why I like DrATV seems like a local business who I'd like to support.

Enough now. I wanna go play and then get some pics for you.