Firehawk Clone

This is my Firehawk CT-70H Clone.
It originally was a 72cc 4 speed manual.
Top speed of about 40 mph with a 42 tooth rear sprocket
I installed a Zongchen 108cc 4 speed manual engine assembly.
I have also tried a few different rear sprockets on it and have a 37 tooth on it right now.
Still has stock 18mm carb on it.
It maintains 53 mph and has hit 57 mph in its present form
This bike is the highest quality Chinese copy by far I have come across.
It has nice aluminum wheels instead of painted steel or aluminum and additional chrome pieces and adjustable rear shocks on it that the other re-makes dont have.
It is also my Guinea pig so to say for modifications.
 

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DoubleR Dan

Member
I like the black finish.


Do you know of the Panda Monkey made by Jenching (sp?) - I am looking for one or a dealer for them. These come with a title so it can be riden street legally.
 
I believe Panda, FireHawk, DirtDobber, ChongQing , The Rupp re-makes and all of the others are all part of ChongQing manufacturing-Shineray, Charming and Lifan in China.
Kind of like General Motors selling Chevy, Buick, Oldsmobile and Cadillac.
There is a Panda distributor in Central Ohio.Their prices are real high for re-makes.
www.pandabikes.com
All of the re-makes come with MSO only unless a specific dealer has taken the time and paid the Taxes to get titles, which I seriously doubt
I have been finding re-makes with 70 and 90cc engines and electric starters in the $500-800 Range from other independant dealers and at swapmeets.
www.wildfiremotors.com will ship
Also check out someone going by Colorado Kite-ski on E-Bay.
They are closer to you than Ohio is.
They are selling 90cc units with electric start for $650 buy it now.
I have bought a speedometer from them, fast shipping.
.
The Coolest re-make I have seen is the Billygoat ST125-6 out of Utah By Motortoysdirect
It is a 125cc with 4 speed manual and a front disc brake.
I want one :D and hopefully will get one after I sell my CR-80R
Check out one which recently sold on e-bay.
Item #4563806572
 

DoubleR Dan

Member
That name did not come up in ebay? But I will keep on the lookout for it.

I would rather have the better quality of clone than that wildfire company one.

I just want a title with one and it to be a stock motor and no electric start.

Sorry to thread jack your thread.


motortoysdirect - not sure if I would have used this pic - gives the imperssion that it is leaking oil - already. LOL
 

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makotosun

Member
Where did you get the Firehawk clone - what dealer? Approximate cost? I would love to get a couple of those for my wife and I for camping trips. Licenseable titles are critical to me.
 
I actually bought my Firehawk version from some kids selling scooters as independant reps of Wildfire motors at an auto parts swapmeet in Springfield Ohio . I had a booth selling car parts and they had a box truck full of scooters. It was $700 then.
Thats how I found out about them.
I had to get the title done myself as it only had a MSO.
They do have a website and do ship for a flat fee but I dont know what Washingtons title laws are. Maybe you could pay them a little extra to have them title it here in Ohio and then send it to you.
 

makotosun

Member
MSO if fine as long as I have that as well as a bill of sale - should be fine. Washington is not too difficult, but need more than a bill of sale. Best if the MSO is not marked "off road", but that can be worked around too. Thanks for the info.
 
I now have over 900 miles on the bike and about 800 miles on the stock Zongshen 125cc motor and so far no problems.
I ride the bike frequently and to work quite a bit.
I am now running a 14 front /35 rear tooth sprocket combination good for sustained into the wind 55mph, 60 mph sustained in calm conditions and 62-65 mph with the wind at my back.
I dont think the motor in stock forum could pull a 34 or 33 tooth rear sprocket in 4th gear without bogging down.
The 108 Zongshen I had on for about 100 miles couldnt pull the 35 tooth rear sprocket in 4th gear without bogging, but it also had a small carb on it.
 

69ST

Well-Known Member
These engines must have some tall gearing internally. The Z108 I had ran best with 17/33 sprockets. 4th gear was on the edge, but left a few revs in reserve for going flat out downhill. It was capable of cruising in the low 50's, top speed about 57mph on the flat, 61 with a stiff tailwind and slight decline. That put the revs in the 9K range. 17/31 would actually slow it down and 16/33 just seemed too "busy" for extended run time.

What would be useful is a table of transmission/primary gear ratios for the FAQ section. Once the overall gearing is known, the ideal sprocket combos can be caluculated.

Running a larger carb would have made the bogging worse. Think about it; taller gearing slows the engine and the engine will flow the same amount of air (as well as make the same power) at any given speed, regardless of gearing. To take advantage of a larger carburetor, the engine has to be capable of flowing more air; higher revs would be required to accomplish that.
 

honda191

Vendor
Vendor
ST 125 Billy Goat

I purchased 4 of the ST 125 Billy Goat Bikes a couple of weeks ago, very good quality bikes no manufacturing issues at all durring assembly. Only minor performance issues are they are geared a little low only go about 40mph but darn good in the trails and the tires need to be a little more agressive for trail riding which DRATV took care of for about $45.00 a bike.
 

TrailRyd3r

Member
honda191 said:
I purchased 4 of the ST 125 Billy Goat Bikes a couple of weeks ago, very good quality bikes no manufacturing issues at all durring assembly. Only minor performance issues are they are geared a little low only go about 40mph but darn good in the trails and the tires need to be a little more agressive for trail riding which DRATV took care of for about $45.00 a bike.


Man, I want one of those bad, they are sweet:cool:
 
Put another 71 miles on this week.
I have no idea what the internal gearing is, I was maxing out rpm with the 37 tooth sprocket with the wind or on a downhill at 60 mph.
These engines are also great on a small dirtbike, they power my XR and CRF-70`s up some pretty agressive and steep inclines on and off atv trails in the woods of southeast Ohio
I assume these engines were manufactured for some form of street use in China on a scooter of some sort. Would be interesting to find what exactly they were intended for.
 
I was out riding on our flat smooth and long back country roads on my black `04 125 clone and my GF was riding the red `05 clone currently with an 86cc engine 4 speed auto clutch and 14/38 gearing which tops out at 53 mph.
The major difference between the two bikes is I am about 1/2 to 3/4 mile ahead of her before her bike tops out, and the red bike is not a slouch.
The rate of acceleration needs to be kept in mind when riding where cars are, not just your top speed.
 
The Billygoat seller was out of Salt lake City, Utah I believe.
Cant find anything now about them.
There was also at one time a seller of similar bikes from port Huron Mi, but i have heard some negatives about his customer service.
99% of the bike dealers and fly by nighters dont deal with the clone CT-70 bikes anymore, the market got flooded and most quit selling them and are now selling scooters and dirtbikes when the prices dropped to about $500 -600 for a Ct clone
 

Dan_Lorenze

Member
racerx said:
These engines must have some tall gearing internally. The Z108 I had ran best with 17/33 sprockets. 4th gear was on the edge, but left a few revs in reserve for going flat out downhill. It was capable of cruising in the low 50's, top speed about 57mph on the flat, 61 with a stiff tailwind and slight decline. That put the revs in the 9K range. 17/31 would actually slow it down and 16/33 just seemed too "busy" for extended run time.

What would be useful is a table of transmission/primary gear ratios for the FAQ section. Once the overall gearing is known, the ideal sprocket combos can be caluculated.

Running a larger carb would have made the bogging worse. Think about it; taller gearing slows the engine and the engine will flow the same amount of air (as well as make the same power) at any given speed, regardless of gearing. To take advantage of a larger carburetor, the engine has to be capable of flowing more air; higher revs would be required to accomplish that.


Great info here RX.... The fact that these PRC engines go in just about every kind of bike at Pep boys makes you wonder about the stock internal gearing that they would come with. 1st gear on my Lifan is a joke, it's like a granny gear you'd find on an old Land Cruiser, it's good for around 0-5 mph (regardless of gearing) then you have to grab 2nd gear quick and the bike finally takes off.. I just wished the gear box had a more linear gear ratio.. A 5th gear would be butter on my bike... Right now I'm at 16/35 and it's a real good combo, but... I want to install a 17 counter just to help out with keeping up with cars on straight sections of road but as my motor is right now the 16/35 is perfect but on the edge of being a bit much.. I need to find a pony (or two) to pull a 17/35... What's my next step?? (maybe I could grind off some Powdercoat) haha:p

I'm thinking a nice 136cc piston, maybe a cam and some valve springs..

PS. Oil cooler is on the way.....

What would you do?

Dan
 
The Granny first gear is fantastic for extreme hillclimbing when these engines are installed in a dirtbike.
.
I`m running a 14-35 combo on the CT and I have no problems keeping ahead of traffic on busy state routes 62 and 104. I`m going to try 15/35 15/34 and 16/35 16/34 tooth combo`s here in the near future and see how the engine likes them.
The 16 tooth CS sprockets may actually bog the engine down too much though on acceleration, with the 14 tooth CS sprocket acceleration is awesome for a small bike.
 
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69ST

Well-Known Member
If your engine takes the garden variety countershaft sprockets, then I'd try a 17T, if it will fit...and it should. Some engines can accomodate up to 18T. The beauty of swapping-out countershaft sprockets is the relative ease compared to the P.I.T.A. of changing wheel sprockets. There is a small price for this relative convenience, the ratio is affected more by a 1 tooth change on the CS than the wheel. If possible, you determine the range by testing CS sprockets, then going up, or down, one tooth an the wheel sprocket to fine-tune the combo. If you have one of the late-model 124/125 motors, it will cost less to buy wheels sprockets and they're easier to source.

In a perfect world I'd go with whatever wheel sprocket gave the best overall gearing with 16T on the CS. That way, there's the option of running 17T for extended high-speed road cruising and dropping down to 15T for trails/climbing all without having to adjust chain length or spend more than 5 minutes changing-out a sprocket.

In the real world, compromises have to be made. There are three schools of thought when it comes to gearing: go for acceleration without regard to top speed; slightly over-gear for relaxed cruising and a bit leftover for the odd banzai blast downhill, using fourth gear as on overdrive; split the difference, which usually means gearing for maximum top speed, i.e. top speed exactly at the rpm the engine makes peak hp. Each scenario has its pros & cons. You have to decide what you prefer.

Judging by your description, you have a low enough first gear to handle quite a heavy sprocket combo. The Honda Nice trans ratios are more closely spaced than what you appear to have; go too large on the CS relative to the wheel and the clutch must be feathered a bit on takeoff. If your first gear is a granny ratio, then you have a good shot at testing out some fairly outlandish sprocket combos. If you go way over the top, at least you'll still be able to takeoff normally and ride back home in third. What you'll find is that once you're on the ragged edge of the engine's powerband, one tooth on the CS or 2 teeth on the wheel will make the difference between "just about right" and overgeared...the bike will slow on the slightest grades and into headwinds, top speed may even decrease.

I take it that you're looking for optimal road gearing and that means finding the upper limit of mph/1000rpm above which the engine begins to lug. Without knowing the gearing and power stats of your motor, you'll have to go by trial & error, plus seat-of-the-pants feel. Every engine has an rpm range that just "feels right" for extended riding. Above this, the engine begins to sound and feel "busy". As a rule of thumb, the upper end of this range is usually just below the rpm at which peak hp occurs which, coincidentally, is about 85% of max rpm. With my stock 110, I know that peak hp occurs at about 8000rpm and the engine pulls well to about 9200. It has enough power to go mid 60s and I like cruising along in the 50-55mph range. Gearing for 7.2mph/1000 rpm (17/31) puts engine rpm between 7000-7500rpm at those speeds, at which the engine is glassy smooth (the rearview mirror is rock steady). Above 8000rpm, the engine begins to buzz a little and loses the relaxed feel. Even though the bike will go along at fairly steady 60mph, 57mph is the upper edge with this gearing. Increasing the gearing to 7.5mph/1000rpm(17/30), ups the ante to a steady 60mph, but a) there aren't many places I ride where this is even remotely legal/necessary and b) uphill performance gets a bit soggy, especially when riding two-up. So, I've compromised and stayed with 17/31 which is low enough to allow easy trail riding in first and second (first can be wound to about 20mph) and ascending long grades at 50mph, or better, even with two aboard. I don't really care all that much about top speed, just having enough power in reserve to deal with hills while taking the wife along, without having to spin the engine any faster than necessary.

It's a lot to digest, but that's the scientific approach...in painstaking detail. Trail & error will get you there, too. It just takes more time & testing.
 
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