V.I.N. SPECIALTY
- Thread starter doctor ct70
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MiniBike Mike’s Garage
Well-Known Member
Joey4speed,
Gary and I have differing opinions on whether or not Honda designated model years to these bikes, but here is my opinion:
There are no model years associated with CT70’s until the 1976 model. The reason you aren’t finding info specific to a 1971 model is because there is no such thing. The production dates don’t denote the model year, they simply give you the build month for a particular bike. Honda designated the bikes with a “K” model. I believe what you are calling a 1971, is actually a K0 (K Zero), the first model CT70 produced. If you’re looking for info on your bike, you need to search for K0 info.
If you were to go by the production date on the black tag, Honda built two different models in 8/71, the K0 and the K1. Although quite different looking, are they both a 1971 or 1972 model? If Honda intended for them to be classified as a model year, I believe they would have set a uniform, specific date range for each model year to be produced, but….that’s not they way they did it.
From the 100’s of CT70’s I’ve owned over the past 30+ years, I’ve found that if a model year need to be placed on a bike…..say for a title….it happened at the dealership and the dealership titled the bike in whatever year they sold it. I bought a one owner K0 a few years ago. It came with all of the original paperwork and title. It sold in 02/73 and the dealer titled it as a 1973.
Just my $.02
MiniBike Mike’s Garage
Well-Known Member
Gary,
Did this info come directly from Honda….or another source? Way too many errors, in just the small section you posted, for me to believe that came from Honda.
Mike
Joey4speed
New Member
Mike,
Thanks for your detailed input, it explains alot.
Makes total sense to me.
Joe
Gary
Well-Known Member
Yes this is an American Honda publication. I don't have my copy with me at the moment. It has just about everything that they ever brought here.
MiniBike Mike’s Garage
Well-Known Member
Wow, crazy how much wrong information is listed. Someone didn’t proof it very well.
Gary
Well-Known Member
I cannot comment on CT's Mike but here is my Z50 info,I suspect all contemporary Hondas are pretty much the same but have no proof. This is the Manufacturer's Statement of Origin supplied with it, on it you can see the year they say it is. Date stamp on frame and gas tank is 8/28/69. Black tag has 9/69 which is the first month of black tag of production. You don't normally see these although I believe there is one in Polson's Z50 book. They are turned into a state when a title/licence is applied for or most likely lost when not titled. Now is this something that American Honda did because they were an American company? What was provided paperwork wise if you brought one in yourself from Japan? My mom was a good archivist she saved everything from this bike. I have the original receipt from it which the dealer wrote down the bikes engine and frame serial numbers which in this case is almost 6 thousand apart. Don't know if all dealers did this but I've seen a '71 50 from the same dealer with the same info. I guess the bottom line was there was no set in stone method and that's why the Feds got involved
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Gary
Well-Known Member
What don't you like? I'm not fluent on anything I don't actually own.
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MiniBike Mike’s Garage
Well-Known Member
CT70K1’s have a 6 digit engine number, not 7.
CT70K2’s engine number didn’t start with their stated 21xxxxx
I’m guessing the release dates are wrong, but I’m not 100% sure. I know the K1’s have a build date of 08/71…..were they really not released until 04/72? Same with the others, the build dates predate the release dates by a bit. I initially thought they had those dates incorrect, but maybe I’m wrong, maybe they held onto the bikes for 8 months before they were released. 🤷🏻♂️
Gary
Well-Known Member
Gotcha. I'm not home right now but when I am I will compare books - I have one from 59 to 88 and that one 59 to 2000 I'll see if they just reused info from the first one. Also found this comment which will verify what you think-
Here's what I wrote about that book (which I also own) quite a few years ago.
The Honda ID guide (red book printed in 1988) was written by a young guy named Chuck Nix in the late 80's while working for American Honda. Much of the guides info is also being used on sites such as wiki and cyclechaos. Unfortunately there is a lot of errors in the guide, primarily with Engine and Frame numbers on models that were in production prior to 1965. It appears that Chuck simply stated the model number followed by a dash and started most with 1000001. This is easy to verify that it is wrong, using old parts manuals, microfiche and actually owning some of the models. I've also noted several errors in component color changes from year to year. Still a good book for identifying bikes especially after 1970ish. Just don't take it as gospel.
Here's what I wrote about that book (which I also own) quite a few years ago.
The Honda ID guide (red book printed in 1988) was written by a young guy named Chuck Nix in the late 80's while working for American Honda. Much of the guides info is also being used on sites such as wiki and cyclechaos. Unfortunately there is a lot of errors in the guide, primarily with Engine and Frame numbers on models that were in production prior to 1965. It appears that Chuck simply stated the model number followed by a dash and started most with 1000001. This is easy to verify that it is wrong, using old parts manuals, microfiche and actually owning some of the models. I've also noted several errors in component color changes from year to year. Still a good book for identifying bikes especially after 1970ish. Just don't take it as gospel.
