Lifan 125 into 1977 ct70

So I just talked to the guy from TBolt for about 15 mins and it seems like I am leaning toward the piranha 140 now. He pretty much walked me through everything that I will need and want so I'll be pulling the trigger tomorrow!

Now for a housekeeping question, can I Mount a k0 style handlebars on the 77 with the stock mount or will I need to get a triple tree clamp/mount for a k0-k3 bikes?

K0-style bars will fit any K0-78 bar clamp. The K1-78 just have the locating tabs "clocked" a little differently, giving the same bars more grip width. The K0 top tree is unique, a one-piece, cast aluminum, bar clamp & top tree. K1-78 use a stamped steel top tree and separate, cast aluminum, bar clamp.

I've heard that those Tbolt guys are pretty great about supporting their product. The fact that they spent 15 minutes on the phone with you kinda says it too.

The perches on the early bars will be in the way of your 77 controls...are you gonna shave them? I'd be interested to see how that works out if someone has done it. To see if the newer controls cover the scars.

How bad are the original bars?

You might like this.

http://planetminis.com/forums/chine...9290-piranha-yx-140cc-engine.html#post2226338

Thanks! I've been reading a lot of threads in other forums and it seems some say just let it be and others say to mod the engine. I'll just get it in there at first and then see what I feel like it needs.

Sounds like my order shipped out today. Is it stupid of me to want to put this 140cc in my candy Ruby red hk1? I just like the looks of the k0-k1 better than really any other bike. That mainly has to do with the decals and I know that if I repaint whatever other bike I have/get I can decal it however I want.

andrewdell19 said:

Thanks! I've been reading a lot of threads in other forums and it seems some say just let it be and others say to mod the engine. I'll just get it in there at first and then see what I feel like it needs.

Sounds like my order shipped out today. Is it stupid of me to want to put this 140cc in my candy Ruby red hk1? I just like the looks of the k0-k1 better than really any other bike. That mainly has to do with the decals and I know that if I repaint whatever other bike I have/get I can decal it however I want.

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IMHO...comes a time when you've just gotta say "life is short and I am the one paying for this". In terms of what constitutes the "right" answer, it's whatever you prefer. If road use is part of your plans, there's no way a bone-stock bike is going to cut it, in anything faster than 30-35mph traffic. I wouldn't call anyone stupid for wanting to put this kind of power into a CT70. And there's nothing involved that isn't reversible, as long as you retain the original stuff that won't be used with the new motor. That takes care of the future resale thing...gets a few of the hardcore purists off your arse, too...if you care about such things. The basic CT70 design has a lot of potential, just waiting to be tapped and having enough road power to keep up with, or even out-drag, traffic across an intersection from a stop light is a hoot. Cruising along a two-lane country road, at a steady 50-60mph can be sublime, especially on a machine this small & lightweight. I would caution you on one parameter...balance.

That's where you can get into serious pain, when the rolling chassis (i.e. suspension, steering, brakes and tires) isn't capable of maintaining control at the speeds the engine can produce. The K0 "pogo stick" front suspension is on the lame side, the stock rear shocks are far weaker...downright dangerous, imo. Of course, there's nothing that prevents you from exercising restraint and limiting speeds to 40-45mph, tops...except having blood in your veins. Let's face it, anyone with the gearhead gene is going to want test that newfound horsepower, sooner or later...that falls somewhere between innate drive and moral imperative

At a minimum:

• Fresh tires
• New brake shoes, preferably grooved, performance-oriented aftermarket
• New bearings, go for top-grade, sealed, NTN, FAG, or Koyo
• Rear shocks with enough spring rate to support an adult-weight rider and with damping to match...the biggest bang-for-the-buck suspension upgrade possible. With the stock shocks, the rear will bottom-out easily and you'll end up with ruined shock mounts
• New slides, glides, dust seals and boots (gators) for the fork. That will at least give you predictable steering. Worn fork parts result in positively evil handling & steering characteristics. Daytona hydraulic cartridges will transform the suspension. According to our own fatcaaat, an external/auxiliary fork damper makes a big difference. Ultimately, I'd want a real hydraulic fork with a hydraulic disc brake. That said, the stock drums are okay up to ~50-55mph and compression braking, above that speed range, can be used to extend braking into the low/mid 60s...as long as you don't need to execute a panic stop.

That should be enough to allow using a goodly portion of your new motor's power and ride just about anywhere other than a freeway. You'll be fine in typical 40-55mph suburban traffic. Offroad, you'll never be able to put much power to the ground. On dirt, 40mph is carrying the mail. On trails, 20mph can be a white-knuckle experience...with a high chance of parts breakage.

racerx said:

IMHO...comes a time when you've just gotta say "life is short and I am the one paying for this". In terms of what constitutes the "right" answer, it's whatever you prefer. If road use is part of your plans, there's no way a bone-stock bike is going to cut it, in anything faster than 30-35mph traffic. I wouldn't call anyone stupid for wanting to put this kind of power into a CT70. And there's nothing involved that isn't reversible, as long as you retain the original stuff that won't be used with the new motor. That takes care of the future resale thing...gets a few of the hardcore purists off your arse, too...if you care about such things. The basic CT70 design has a lot of potential, just waiting to be tapped and having enough road power to keep up with, or even out-drag, traffic across an intersection from a stop light is a hoot. Cruising along a two-lane country road, at a steady 50-60mph can be sublime, especially on a machine this small & lightweight. I would caution you on one parameter...balance.

That's where you can get into serious pain, when the rolling chassis (i.e. suspension, steering, brakes and tires) isn't capable of maintaining control at the speeds the engine can produce. The K0 "pogo stick" front suspension is on the lame side, the stock rear shocks are far weaker...downright dangerous, imo. Of course, there's nothing that prevents you from exercising restraint and limiting speeds to 40-45mph, tops...except having blood in your veins. Let's face it, anyone with the gearhead gene is going to want test that newfound horsepower, sooner or later...that falls somewhere between innate drive and moral imperative

At a minimum:

• Fresh tires
• New brake shoes, preferably grooved, performance-oriented aftermarket
• New bearings, go for top-grade, sealed, NTN, FAG, or Koyo
• Rear shocks with enough spring rate to support an adult-weight rider and with damping to match...the biggest bang-for-the-buck suspension upgrade possible. With the stock shocks, the rear will bottom-out easily and you'll end up with ruined shock mounts
• New slides, glides, dust seals and boots (gators) for the fork. That will at least give you predictable steering. Worn fork parts result in positively evil handling & steering characteristics. Daytona hydraulic cartridges will transform the suspension. According to our own fatcaaat, an external/auxiliary fork damper makes a big difference. Ultimately, I'd want a real hydraulic fork with a hydraulic disc brake. That said, the stock drums are okay up to ~50-55mph and compression braking, above that speed range, can be used to extend braking into the low/mid 60s...as long as you don't need to execute a panic stop.

That should be enough to allow using a goodly portion of your new motor's power and ride just about anywhere other than a freeway. You'll be fine in typical 40-55mph suburban traffic. Offroad, you'll never be able to put much power to the ground. On dirt, 40mph is carrying the mail. On trails, 20mph can be a white-knuckle experience...with a high chance of parts breakage.

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I hear ya racer! If it goes into such a bike that I would like to keep original Al looking just for head turning sake as I go down the road then it would go into an hk1 that has the hydraulic forks in front. I totally hear ya about replacing the rear ones for sure. Is there upgrades u should consider regarding the bone stock hk1 forks?

Yeah yeah the purist thing. So I always considered myself a purist because everything I put back together, and got back on the roads from gathering dust in someone's basement, I did with as close to stock parts as I could get it. So it is more of getting the purist in me off my own "want to be creative" gear head back. So it may take some of me getting used to it you know? But yes of course I will retain all original pieces as well. It's just a great specimen I have in an hk1 I would say an 8/10 type bike and would really take not much to make it that 9.5/10 bike. And it runs like a champ-ion...

Boy howdy...you're speaking a familiar language. I started off with a one-owner, titled, low-mileage K1 and a thought toward an 88cc kit & cam. By the time I had thought through the entire process, it made more sense to start with a partial bike. Seemed a waste to take a 100% complete, original, bike and just tear it apart, leaving most of it to gather dust. So, I built a serious rider from a basket case. The K1 got a show-quality CRR repaint, in House of Kolor and I gave it to my wife. Only time she'll ever exceed 35mph on a bike is while I'm at the controls.

I truly appreciate stockers, and we need `em...they establish the CT70 as a marque. I also wanted to have one 100-point original in the family collection. Problem is that I am an unrepentant hardcore gearhead, always have been, can't leave anything alone and a stock bike is nearly useless to me. Thus I did a museum-perfect collector bike and a purpose-built rider. Having your cake and eating it? Not quite...more like two cakes, one to eat, one for the display case.

Trust me on this, there is no way to field a single bike that'll do everything.

As for upgrading K1-`79 fork legs, it takes a large chunk of change to surpass what can be achieved with oil-tuning. Tear `em apart for cleaning & new seals, then find the best fill level using 15w, or 20W fork oil. You'll be amazed by how well they perform when optimally "tuned" this way. The only things they'll still lack is another 1-2 inches of excursion and progressive-rate springs. That said, they're okay for a 50-60mph, quite adequate for average roads, and sane trail riding.

I am sure most people who get into the ct70 bikes feel that way at first before they start their first real mod. As of now I have an original white lady dax 4 speed all original with just some minor paint chips, normal wear and tear from a bike that I can lay a stake in the original ct (or st) world. I also have a restored z50 k2 in Mexican yellow (thanks to a certain member on this board who hooked me up with a paint job before I left AZ) that is all original except color correct paint and one other part that Kirrbby will know what is haha. So I do have two excellent showroom specimens. I also have an all original k0 z50 in yellow as well that has some paint blems and seat blems but still original. I have yet to decide if I want to repaint that one yet. So it's not like I have a lacking collection of stock or very close to stock bikes.

This hk1 is excellent and would really just need a repaint to make it showroom. The previous owner must have redone the wheels because the silver on them is amazing. The fenders have some yellow dots in the chrome that I have yet to be able to buff out. It's like they are beneath the surface but stock fenders for the k1 are not hard to come by and won't break the bank. Bars are straight top end of engine was redone recently... I just don't know if I can get myself to replace the engine, rear shocks, pipe etc... Someone else may get more enjoyment out of the titled hk1 being stock than I will. That is why I was leaning towards a 77 that a guy contacted me a few weeks back about selling. It's a good piece and complete minus turn signals and key switch, bars and wheels are rusty (likely surface) blah blah blah but I can get it for $250. So I am picking it up anyways because well you know... Why not?

Yeah, I keep forgetting about your other machines. You've definitely reached the point where it's time to plunge into the deep end of the purpose-built pool, the natural progression of the gearhead addiction process. Ask me how I know this...

Piranha engine and accessories have arrived! Still need an exhaust tho but the fun is about to begin!!!

Well crap, the fun has hit it's first snag. 77 frame is dented and twisted. So... Looking for another frame triple tree and swingarm or use the hk1 and get custom graphics over the previous owners gas malfunction "touch up" screw up. Damn.

My reservations are that engine runs like a top with great compression and now no leaks. I could always crate and box the engine and pipe and do the customized pipe etc with graphics or keep yet another all stock bike however knowing my OCD I would need it repainted.

Don't often see a non-repairable frame. Could you provide a little more detail on the frame damage? The situation may not be as dire as you seem to think. Couldn't hurt to take a closer, second, look...what've you got to lose?

andrewdell19 said:

or use the hk1 and get custom graphics over the previous owners gas malfunction "touch up" screw up.

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No idea what this means...help!

I was saying that I have an hk1 I could use as my custom build. The previous owner spilled gas on it and touched it up. You can't really tell from the pics but up close you can tell. So I was thinking I could get a custom graphic over the area that was spilled.. like a Honda wing or something. Otherwise it's a repaint job needed but I hate to do that because the rest of the paint is in great condition...

Ahhh...much clearer now, thanks for the details.

The graphic might be okay, so too might the battle scar. It is patina, in the truest sense of the term.

Impossible to make a reference-book accurate call from small photos alone so, I am going wa-ay out on a limb here. That `77 frame looks more easily repairable than the dented H-model we saw yesterday. The bending is parallel, right-to-left, and this is the one part of the frame that IS easily accessible from the inside. The seat supports look to have remained parallel to each other, a strong indication that the upper shock mount is still straight, can't see any pinching at the tank end either. Don't misunderstand, frame straightening isn't an easy, basic, repair. But, it's not always beyond practicality, either. Notice how the battery is still intact, along with the carrier. Looks like the battery could still be extracted normally. That's because the frame is flimsiest at this location and in this direction (laterally). This works to your advantage, as the metal is easiest to wrestle back into shape, at this location, too. This could the most spectacularly worse-than-it-appears frame damage we've seen.

I've successfully straightened bent frames, none exactly quite like this one. Usually, the shock mount is bent and the seat supports no longer parallel. Replacing a bent shock mount is a lot of work and the frame is incredibly strong in that area. OTOH, I once owned a low-mileage `82 that was taco'd like your `77, but only on one side. That one was slated for a repaint. However, I was able to straighten the frame and, through sheer luck, the paint was unblemished in the process. Fab a support, which can be secured via the battery box holes and it should be possible to apply lateral force to the convex side of the damage and get the frame walls virtually straight while keeping them parallel. From there, hopefully, it'll be mostly hammer & dolly work fallowed by a minimal amount of scratch filler.

Yes, I am enough of a realist to understand that this may not be your cuppa triple espresso; body repair 101, it ain't. Still, it's worth thinking over...

Well I will need to straighten frame somewhat in order to get the tank out so may as well try and do it right.

I decided to order the marble motors spray paint in hopes I can get the paint to look a little better.

I'm rooting for you. Seeing this frame straightened and the bike being transformed into something you'll enjoy...would rock!

andrewdell19 said:

I was saying that I have an hk1 I could use as my custom build. The previous owner spilled gas on it and touched it up. You can't really tell from the pics but up close you can tell. So I was thinking I could get a custom graphic over the area that was spilled.. like a Honda wing or something. Otherwise it's a repaint job needed but I hate to do that because the rest of the paint is in great condition...

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I repainted the bad area today with the marble motors candy Ruby red spray paint can and I am overall happy with the results. It's not a perfect match it's almost like it is a bit too shiny and I need to make it a tiny bit duller. I am thinking of doing some 2000 grit sandpaper over it. Might make it look worse though and then I'd have to sand it down again and repeat the process.
You can tell when you get up close to the bike but can't tell from about 5 feet out. Plus it will have the seat taking up part of the noticeable area and then when you are riding your leg covers the rest of the bad area. I guess it has to do more with how I can stand knowing it... I will take some pics tomorrow after all dried etc.

Blending/matching early 1970s vintage lacquer, over an area this size, is damn near impossible. IMHO, it's "discretion is the better part of valor" meets "less is more" with this one. I'd sit tight for a while before doing anything further. It may be possible to dull-down the new paint and bring-up the gloss of the original lacquer. It's also far easier to make things progressively worse, the more you do...in an effort to "correct" the mismatch. Could very well be that you've gotten this as good as it's going to get. It sounds to me like you got a very good result. Give it some time, post some good pix. Sometimes, the most difficult decision an artist faces is knowing when to remove the brush from the canvas.

Candy colors do not like to be f****d with.

Given my skill level of painting or lack thereof of I think I have obtained the best results I can get without a complete sanddown and prep blast and repaint. Now am I happy enough to live with it? Do I want to explore a complete tare down and repaint? Do I want to explore a custom graphic? Only time will tell.