Joshua McQueen
New Member
I made this video to show what comes in the box. Hopefully, this helps someone when deciding what motor to run in their Honda Trail.
Unboxing the Piranha Zongshen 212cc Engine
- Thread starter Joshua McQueen
- Start date
loopiemclooperson
Active Member
Video looked great!
Get that thing installed and let us know which gears the front tire stays on the ground in.
Get that thing installed and let us know which gears the front tire stays on the ground in.
mark from florida
Active Member
nice video. motor looks like it comes pretty plug and play. should def. be a blast to ride.
There's definitely a learning curve ahead. This engine is relatively new. I don't know if its teething problems have been solved yet, or not. The Z190 it's built from may be a more durable piece. Electric starters and these little bikes don't play well together for very long; with a kickstarter, that's not necessarily a deal-breaker.
There will be the typical fitment issues that are part of any swap to a physically larger engine. And there will be the tuning & gearing to dial-in.
At this displacement, even a mild tune should be capable of 75mph & 20hp, easily. With a little more aggressive tuning, hp numbers in the mid 20s don't seem like much of a stretch and that translates into 80-85mph top speed potential...with huge torque. This is serious road power and it's going to reveal any and all shortcomings/weak points of a bike, in fairly short order. A lot of guys are going to find out, firsthand, how quickly 100 miles goes by when you can easily keep up with traffic; then, odometer readings will start to add-up faster than seems possible. The torque is pushing the structural limits of the chassis, which can be addressed. The stock rolling chassis isn't set up for high freeway speeds; it's marginal above 45mph. Again, those capabilities can be greatly improved. And the wheelie-happy nature to which you alluded could be an issue, unless the weight balance and gearing are dialed-in. The bottom line is that these items are best addressed early-on. Careful planning will give one a good headstart...from there, the rest can be fine-tuned. There's also operator restraint, but that's not 100% reliable...lol. My concern is more about the inexperienced owner/builders out there who may draw the wrong conclusions and find out the hard way what happens when components are pushed beyond mechanical limits, or/and the rolling chassis is overbalanced with power and lacks tractability. Big power is fun, as long as it can be controlled. 200cc+ is taking things to the limits...with both engine and chassis.
kirrbby
Well-Known Member
I know how cringeworthy it can be each time you try to kickstart a big, or just high compression engine. You feel things flexing and stressing each time you kick over the engine.
212cc? On a CT70 engine...it sounds scary to me. 212cc with electric start...sounds impossible to me. That's gotta be a great starter, fed by a pretty great battery.
212cc? On a CT70 engine...it sounds scary to me. 212cc with electric start...sounds impossible to me. That's gotta be a great starter, fed by a pretty great battery.
Boy howdy!! There are a number of parameters to be addressed with this much displacement and, most importantly, there are solutions for virtually every imbalance/weakness/limitation. I've seen 90mph tunes with less than 200cc. For that matter, the first 200cc (196cc to be exact) tune I can recall pre-dates this board by ~2 years.This build could demonstrate a ton of creativity, planning...and execution.
With 212cc, there's more than enough displacement to run a "soft" tune (low compression/low rpm) and still have a 75mph bike. However, changing the shape of the power curve carries its own set of compromises, best discussed as a separate topic, or sub-topic.
For the moment, suffice it to say that decompression cams and devices can tame the hard kickstarting. Those weren't available years ago. Something else that's changed for the better...battery tech. LiFePO4 batteries make it possible to power a starter more reliably. With a full-wave electrical system and tight voltage/charging control, that could be deal-maker. Those tend to be smaller & lighter...which opens the door to possibly relocating them, freeing up underseat frame space, for more fuel capacity. With the battery & electrical parts relocated from their stock locations, there's room for well over a full gallon of tank capacity. It comes down to creativity...and how far one wishes to take things.
I've seen a LOT of electric starter failures with Chinese engines, over a lot of years now, mostly Lifan. OTOH, the new Hondas don't have that problem. And, this Zonger is so new to the market that it really hasn't yet had enough time to establish a field service record. I am presenting straight-up questions, based on decades of knowledge & direct experience... focusing on objective criteria.
There are any number of ways to approach a build, "make things work". A good friend of mine has been running an early L110/electric start engine in a custom-built z50 sidehack for close to 15 years now, zero issues. The missing detail is that it's strictly his swap meet bike. I doubt he's put 200 miles on it in that time and it's never seen the high side of 30mph. So it is possible for someone to install a motor with nearly double that displacement into an otherwise virtually stock CT70K0 and never have a problem...if speeds and total mileage are limited. I do know that early K0 frames are prone to breakage above the upper motor mounts and that the K0 swingarm is disturbingly flexible, when a huge infusion of torque is part of the plan. To be clear, I'm saying "heads-up, these are known weak points...FYI" and that's it, no judgments one way or the other.