K1 Z50 the horder

Found this guy who is fairly local that has the collection of all collections of mini's, at one time he had over 100 CT70's, Z50's and qa 50's in one of his two barns... He had 8 mini's he was looking to sell (5 Z50's and 3 qa 50's) because he already had a line of nearly 20 restored Z50's and no longer likes the qa's that much. He also had three Z50 imports in his man cave in the house.

I have been wanting an older Z50 so I grabbed some cash and headed out. Ended up choosing the K1 he had just because I wanted blue, it had the "8" bolts and I like the tank emblems.

Part of his garage line up:


The imports in his man cave:


The K1 I will be restoring slowly once I finish the Hk1 CT70 stroker:









This one needs some work but look forward to saving it. At one time the steering stop was bent and it allowed the forks to hit the tank. Also needs the seat recovered and the headlight bucket is trashed. The bike turns over and has good compression. The wire harness has been messed with and I am sure the carb needs rebuilt along with points.
Goal is to try and get it running and enjoy it until I have time to restore it.

Take a closer look at your top photo. Just behind the Mexican Yellow bike, the red tartan plaid seat...belongs to a rare Z50M, if it's original to the bike wearing it. That's quite a hoard. Consider it a valuable public service. At lot of bikes kept viable and a powerful excus....umm...defense tool. When the Mrs. comments on your addiction, just show her the photos of a real addict's collection. At your present rate of growth, it'll take a long time before your collection rivals this one...several weeks, at least.:19:

Congrats on your latest acquisition. Looks like good raw material. These little hardtail Zs are stunning in this color combo.

Your new bike is the same one I had as a kid .I traded a $3.50 Estes model rocket for it ,and sold it for $150.00 in beautiful condition a year later to buy a candy gold ct70 .I wish I still had both of those bikes .

Is he willing to let any more of them go?

mikejana said:

Is he willing to let any more of them go?

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He is only selling the 8 that are not restored.

Does he have titles on them?

SanDogDewey said:

Does he have titles on them?

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Most of the bikes he is willing to sell do not have titles.

The pictures of the collection I posted above are the "untouchable" bikes. The bikes he said he would never sell, I tried with cash in hand. Below are a couple pictures of the bikes he will sell, most if not all do not have titles and are in the same to worse condition to the K1 I bought. His price on the bikes is not good and he was not willing to budge, he is one of those guys who does not need to or really want to sell. The bikes below he is selling are because they are duplicates and not restored.

The Bronco caught my eye. And I'm not a Ford guy. Hellova collection though.
I wish folks didn't think Z's were so cool. It'd be easier to have a few more.

tweakin,
Thanks for sharing that info.

ez50 said:

The Bronco caught my eye. And I'm not a Ford guy. Hellova collection though.
I wish folks didn't think Z's were so cool. It'd be easier to have a few more.

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Yes, he had just taken the restored bronco in for its exhaust system. He also had old Indian motorcycles all over the inside of his house!

Anyone have any advise or tricks to remove the head and cylinder when the head is seized to the stud. Lower stud in the pick. I have tried about everything I can think of with out destroying the head.

Thanks in advance!

Oh boy... I can tell you, that is a difficult problem.

That stud is exposed, and visible, thru a cavity in the underside of the head. That's why they can rust up soo bad. So you can use that spot to heat and get penetrant in there.That is also the stud that goes thru the locating dowels, so there is a bottleneck between the head and cylinder. If you can find a spot to get a wedge in there between the head and cylinder, or cyl and case, to get some pressure to help you. Then I would rap the end of the stud with a hammer, heat, soak with penetrant, and repeat...and repeat, and repeat. If you can ge a gap, you can then cut the stud. If the gap is at the cyl/case, you'll need to leave enough of the stud to grab with vicegrips so you can get the stub out of the engine case.

The holes thru the head and cyl are 7.5mm. The stud is 6mm at the threads and maybe 5.5 thru the center section of the stud...smaller than the threaded area at the end. Sooo, you might be able to run a small drill bit in there between the stud and head casting to get some rust out and let penetrant in. I have used a piece of coat hanger wire to make a long drill bit. Smash the end flat, then file the corners to make a 4 sided point. Then chuck it into a drill and start drilling while supporting the center of the long wire with your other hand. This could work for you with a smaller diameter wire...just a thought. That's about all I got.

I know it's a tough situation. I'm the king of crappy parts, and I've had this problem. I got it out...it wasn't pretty. I cut the stud. The cylinder was scrap anyway, with the siezed piston in it and a scrap crank in the stuck piston...it's still in my scrap bin. I still have the head. The remains of the stud is still in it I think. Great lookin head from the outside, kinda rusty inside. I saved the H case too...think I sold that one.

Goood luck to you.

Post #728 & 729 here.. https://lilhonda.com/webboard/showthread.php?t=15030&page=73

Thank kirrby! I currently have the entire cylinder soakin on evaporites overnight. Will try heat and you drill bit method in the am. If it doesn't work I will chop the stud between the head and cylinder and go from there. I found an early z50 head as a back up if needed.

After a bit of a battle I got the head and cylinder off. Unfortunately I had to cut them off but I have a 69 head and cylinder on the way.

Next challenge was getting the rusty stud out of the case, I have had them break off close to the surface on a couple of my cb750 builds and it is a major pain to get them out. Have to weld a nut on any piece of stud left and back it out.

Ho-leee-!

I've run across a lot of oxidized-in-place studs in that same location. Roughly 20-25% of the motors I've pulled apart have the issue...but none like this one! Sorry to "Monday morning quarterback" on Sunday afternoon(!) but, I'd have tried drilling-down, or drilling-out, the stud using a drill press and long bit, then looking to break it just below the head. Oh well, that wasn't a guarantee and, what's done is done, I reckon.

As for the remainder of that stud, it should be removable. These studs are a lot tougher than garden-variety mild steel. Usually, you just need to hear that initial "crack!" as the adhesion is broken, then unscrew it. They don't break easily. And, I don't see any obvious signs of rust/oxidation with this one.

Once you've finished the rest of the teardown, the casting can be heated to ~400F, just along the stud pocket. That, alone, should loosen the stuck portion enough to successfully employ the Vise grip maneuver. If you're really motivated, keep the stud immersed in ice water, while you quickly heat the aluminum casting. That will maximize the clearance gain.

I have had good luck using an air chisel. The impact of the chisel on the end of the stud breaks the rust bond between the stud and the block. I also soak the threads with Kroil, but I think the chisel had the biggest effect.

Not a bad idea using a drill press, but that is one of the few tools I do not have. Don't like that I had to damage the stock head and cylinder but what is done is done. The stud came out easily with a little heat and penetrating oil. The second pick with the two vise grips is actually the stud being removed immediately after getting the head off.

Tear down and inspection is complete on the z50. Now the fun can start once I get the HK1 completed.

Cool thing about the 69 z50 is that it is a silvertag with some unique parts and all the "8" bolts. I know the silvertag 50's are not as rare as the 70's but I still think it is pretty cool...
Cheers!

Small update but moving forward. Head and cylinder have been reworked and are on the way back to me. Tim LaVoi does excellent work at a reasonable price and super fast turnaround!