Exact matching Numbers KO

kirrbby

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
In my scenario...at the end of a run of bikes/numbers...there is a excess of engines...no more frames. The last vin # used was 100500. The lowest numbered engine that is left over is 100200...300 extra engines. So they would call for 300 frames only, starting 100501 to use to build out the excessive engines...vins going up to 100800...engines going up 100500...300 off.

the next run of frames and engines would all be stamped new, starting with 100801.
 
red69

red69

Well-Known Member
Good assumption. Anyone know any others?

I think the guy with the answer is still hiding on one of those south Pacific islands.
 
Gary

Gary

Well-Known Member
I would have hoped that the two books out would have attempted to answer these questions. I wonder if the Honda Motor company or American Honda were ever contacted. I know if you follow Triumphs history you'll find engines and frames were stamped together as the bike went down the line,they always matched when they left the factory. I find it odd you can get more info on an out of business lower production company,maybe it's a language barrier?
 
kirrbby

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
Agreed. The information has to be out there, but probably written and discussed in a verry foreign language.

When I was reading up about the "Motoman Method" of engine break in procedure, somewhere on, or around his website it said, that someone said, that someone who worked in a Honda factory said, that the way that Honda used to seat the rings on brand new engines was to, start the engine...then rev it to full throttle and hold it there for X seconds...or minutes. (How's that for a long sentence)
I liked that the info was claimed to come from someone who was there. But when these stories are shared, they are shared in Japanese.
 
MiniBike Mike’s Garage

MiniBike Mike’s Garage

Well-Known Member
My bike with exact matching numbers is factory original. I’m the second owner. It came with the original Indiana title. Since picking up the bike a number of years ago, I’ve searched long and hard to find another factory matched CT70K0.....I’ve not found another.
 
Gary

Gary

Well-Known Member
I think you could search long and hard on any matching numbers Honda not just the 70's. It seems it was not a priority. I can't believe it was sloppy work but more of how their production methods were. As noted before,the earliest produced and the models least produced have closer numbers. Out of my 4 Honda's,3 have frame numbers higher than the engines but oddly the 4th has a frame number lower than the engine and that is only by 1. I guess getting matching numbers is like getting lotto numbers- not happening here :)
 
zodc

zodc

New Member
My guess as to production. You have an assembly team of frame workers dedicated to putting together and completing frames. You have an assembly team of engine workers dedicated to building and completing engines. Each of those completed sets go through inspection. They pass and get finalized by a team of assembly workers. They work in bulk sets. There a very rare chance that at any given set, an engine and frame number will match. Very unlikely but possible.
 
SW Ohio

SW Ohio

New Member
So which number, engine?, frame?, decal", is the "official" VIN number used on the manufacturer's certificate, and then on the title?
 
Gary

Gary

Well-Known Member
The warranty card and the manufacturers statement of origin used the frame number. However the titles were issued by the states DMV not by Honda. I have heard of bikes titled in Wisconsin using the engine numbers which is their choice but seems crazy. That's why the Feds got involved starting in '76
 
6

69ST

Well-Known Member
V.I.N. = "Vehicle Identification Number"...is stamped into the, frame & VIN tag, along with the date of manufacture. When titling a never-titled bike, using the D.O.M. for a pre-1975 model, will simplify things...by not raising questions. 1975 & later have the federally-required model year declaration on the VIN tag.
 
M

MikesToys

New Member
Hi, I am new to lilhonda so my first post. I have a 1970 CT70 that is believed to be all original down to the tires and in very nice condition. The frame vin is CT70-133035 and the engine vin is CT70E-231516? It only had two previous owners and I'm told the motor is original but it seems to me that the numbers should be closer? Is it possible the engine didn't pass QC and was replaced at the plant thus the number gap? Curious of feedback from those on this site? Thanks, Mike
 
wanrep

wanrep

Active Member
I'd say your engine is original.
All the KO models, '69-'71, had 6 digits after CT70E on the engine.
From '72 (K1) on, there were 7 digits.
 
Gary

Gary

Well-Known Member
Wow I don't know- am I reading those numbers right? it's almost 98.5 K off,I did not think 70 were ever that far off. I used to get flak from people not believing that my 50 was 5.5K off until I show the original dealer paperwork where they recorded both the frame and engine numbers. I have since seen paperwork from a K2 17K off from the same dealer where the numbers were recorded as well. Since then Jeremy Polson's books have confirmed that as well. But say it is the original- it would be tough to prove if it wasn't written down and you possess that original paperwork IMHO.
 
scooter

scooter

Well-Known Member
Those numbers would appear to me that you have a K0 frame and a K1 engine. On the K0s, both frame and engine are 6 digits and they would match within couple hundred. The frame number on the K1 and up go to 7 digits and engine numbers don't go to 7 digits until you get to the K3....
 
ez50

ez50

Well-Known Member
You guys got off on a tangent. Haven't seen a picture of the engine stamp yet.
This thread has had 5 years and hasn't been proven.
 
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