78 honda z50a k-3 no spark
- Thread starter gdk10
- Start date
kirrbby
Well-Known Member
It seems to me that you aren't afraid to put the work in...you've already done a bunch.
I would still like to know what ignition coil you're using. Some pics...and/or a link could be very helpful. I'd also like to see some more pics...all around you bike. Show us what you're working on. Wire harness. Switches. Couple pics of the whole bike that we can zoom in on.
We like to help, and want to get you riding. But we need help, to help you.
Here is your other thread.
lilhonda.com
Did you see Allen's post in the other thread?
[""The flywheel is the same as prior years - no difference. Stator - Primary coil, which generates the juice for the ignition coil, is the same as prior years; minor difference in the lighting coil but most AFT kits will work fine in a 78.
The voltage out of the coil is a spike when the points open so trying to measure the voltage with a meter, even a good Fluke DVM, is practically impossible. At most, it sounds like your primary coil is good and the points are in fact opening""]
I would still like to know what ignition coil you're using. Some pics...and/or a link could be very helpful. I'd also like to see some more pics...all around you bike. Show us what you're working on. Wire harness. Switches. Couple pics of the whole bike that we can zoom in on.
We like to help, and want to get you riding. But we need help, to help you.
Here is your other thread.
1978 z50a electrical
Is there any difference in the stator, coil, or magneto of a bike that has a battery and one that does not? My 78 z50a is not wired for a battery and I can still not get more than 2+or-out of the stator directly. A high speed drill will get it to almost 4, but that has got to be close to top rpm.
lilhonda.com
Did you see Allen's post in the other thread?
[""The flywheel is the same as prior years - no difference. Stator - Primary coil, which generates the juice for the ignition coil, is the same as prior years; minor difference in the lighting coil but most AFT kits will work fine in a 78.
The voltage out of the coil is a spike when the points open so trying to measure the voltage with a meter, even a good Fluke DVM, is practically impossible. At most, it sounds like your primary coil is good and the points are in fact opening""]
Thanks Kirby, I will get as many pics as I can in the morn. I do appreciate all the help, I usually don't need much but, this is stumping me and this is the first mini honda I have worked on. Seems simple enough but, I guess I'm not up to it.It seems to me that you aren't afraid to put the work in...you've already done a bunch.
I would still like to know what ignition coil you're using. Some pics...and/or a link could be very helpful. I'd also like to see some more pics...all around you bike. Show us what you're working on. Wire harness. Switches. Couple pics of the whole bike that we can zoom in on.
We like to help, and want to get you riding. But we need help, to help you.
Here is your other thread.
1978 z50a electrical
Is there any difference in the stator, coil, or magneto of a bike that has a battery and one that does not? My 78 z50a is not wired for a battery and I can still not get more than 2+or-out of the stator directly. A high speed drill will get it to almost 4, but that has got to be close to top rpm.
Did you see Allen's post in the other thread?
[""The flywheel is the same as prior years - no difference. Stator - Primary coil, which generates the juice for the ignition coil, is the same as prior years; minor difference in the lighting coil but most AFT kits will work fine in a 78.
The voltage out of the coil is a spike when the points open so trying to measure the voltage with a meter, even a good Fluke DVM, is practically impossible. At most, it sounds like your primary coil is good and the points are in fact opening""]
Yes I have seen and read all posts related to mine and any others and have not seen anything on the strength of a rotor or if there is any difference other than that post. I am considering the cdi for this bike but am not sure if a battery is needed, as I am still researching.
kirrbby
Well-Known Member
You definitely have the correct flywheel...that is not the problem. The flywheels ARE the same for the battery bikes and the non battery bikes. And, the battery has NOTHING to do with getting spark on a CT70 or Z50.
The CDI kit WILL work. A battery bike or non battery bike...makes no difference whatsoever with getting spark, and a running bike with a CDI ignition...OR with a points ignition CT70 or Z50.
My guess(es) for your problem are:
your ignition is grounding out at the stator plate somewhere. All it takes is for a bare wire or terminal touching...(OR even just too close to) bare metal.
Your IGNITION coil is incorrect...the one that the spark plug wire comes out of.
Please tell us again....you've said that you ARE "getting spark, just not enough."
Are you getting spark??
Getting spark but your bike wont fire??
Or, are you NOT getting ANY spark??
The CDI kit WILL work. A battery bike or non battery bike...makes no difference whatsoever with getting spark, and a running bike with a CDI ignition...OR with a points ignition CT70 or Z50.
My guess(es) for your problem are:
your ignition is grounding out at the stator plate somewhere. All it takes is for a bare wire or terminal touching...(OR even just too close to) bare metal.
Your IGNITION coil is incorrect...the one that the spark plug wire comes out of.
Please tell us again....you've said that you ARE "getting spark, just not enough."
Are you getting spark??
Getting spark but your bike wont fire??
Or, are you NOT getting ANY spark??
It is whether or not there is enough magnetism from the flywheel or not is the main question. I am getting spark from the coils with a six volt battery. I am not getting enough voltage from the stator coil to fire the coil. It will only put out around 2 volts ac. if there was a ground problem there would be no output. there is no spark at plug and I have gone backwards from there to the stator "several" times checking and testing everything and all checks ok except the out put voltage of the stator and being that it it is the same no matter swapping each and every part and testing everything in between the results are the same, no more than 2 or so volts from the stator, not enough to fire the coil. I have tested everything with a 6 volt battery and it all works as it is supposed to. That is why I believe it is the old fly wheel's magnetism is weak and I don't know of a way to check that other than swapping from a running bike. I am searching locally for someone now. U
OLD CT
Well-Known Member
There is a real nice flywheel for 75 shipped it doesn't get cheaper than that! I think you were duped on that coil like Kirby mentioned. I have seen it TOO MANY times here. My advice, buy ANOTHER from CHP, Northeast vintage cycle, or some other reputable seller.
Not some ''fly by night schmuck'' on amazon, ebay.
Not some ''fly by night schmuck'' on amazon, ebay.
Taken from Grant's trail member and I have seen a few videos and diagram on how to test for spark. If you take your 6v battery hook the ground (-)to the coil mount and touch the positive (+) lead to the small coil wire for an second and remove it the spark plug wire should spark to a ground like the coil base. Grant :39:
I do not eat spark just from normal operation of kick start or spinning the rotor by screw gun. All tests for ground and continuity as well as the coil test, lighting and switches are all positive. there is not enough voltage from the stator to energize the coil. A small rechargeable 6 volt battery for my deer feeders does create a spark from both coils i have bought.
I have bought 2 nice flywheels from ebay for that amount and they both produce the same results. They may work for a battery bike but not this on this one.
It seems to me that you aren't afraid to put the work in...you've already done a bunch.
I would still like to know what ignition coil you're using. Some pics...and/or a link could be very helpful. I'd also like to see some more pics...all around you bike. Show us what you're working on. Wire harness. Switches. Couple pics of the whole bike that we can zoom in on.
We like to help, and want to get you riding. But we need help, to help you.
Here is your other thread.
1978 z50a electrical
Is there any difference in the stator, coil, or magneto of a bike that has a battery and one that does not? My 78 z50a is not wired for a battery and I can still not get more than 2+or-out of the stator directly. A high speed drill will get it to almost 4, but that has got to be close to top rpm.
Did you see Allen's post in the other thread?
[""The flywheel is the same as prior years - no difference. Stator - Primary coil, which generates the juice for the ignition coil, is the same as prior years; minor difference in the lighting coil but most AFT kits will work fine in a 78.
The voltage out of the coil is a spike when the points open so trying to measure the voltage with a meter, even a good Fluke DVM, is practically impossible. At most, it sounds like your primary coil is good and the points are in fact opening""]
I have tested all wiring and switches using a 6 volt battery and everything works as it should. I have only been using the black wire from the stator to test for voltage and spark to plug.
The light switch mounted at the base of the handle bars is just temporary for testing purpose only. All worked fine with 6volt battery.
The light switch mounted at the base of the handle bars is just temporary for testing purpose only. All worked fine with 6volt battery.
Attachments
Last edited:
Yes I have read that even hitting them with a hammer can weaken them. I think that is my problem, they are too old and or weak to excite the stator enough to put out the 6+or- volts needed for the coil to fire
Yes I have tried everything from .014 to .018 and usually right at .016. I am getting spark from the points as tested with a 12v light tester. Everything tests good except the amount of ac voltage coming out of the stator. I have disconnected the stator from everything and just connected to the black wire coming out, meaning there is nothing connected but the coil stator straight to the volt meter with the flywheel on and still only got the usual 2 volts+or- ac. that being just the output of the stator coil by itself
I have, with a jumper wire from the coil ground to the engine case. That is with points and condenser connected, If you mean directly from stator only to coil I have not. I have also connected directly from stator "pack" to coil without using the actual wiring harness as well.
OLD CT
Well-Known Member
I have a couple Hitachi flywheels that some dill weed hammered on. I guarantee they will work as I have tested them. Not that you need another. As that isn't the problem. It doesn't matter if you have a battery bike or not, they are designed to work on both models. The battery bike WILL run ''without a battery'' as long as the battery jumper harness is intact. It's the little black loop by the battery plug. If that loop has been butchered, then all bets are off for spark. I do realize you do not have a battery bike so no sense in asking that question. The scooby doo mystery continues.
kirrbby
Well-Known Member
You definitely need to try that.
Connect the black from the stator DIRECTLY to the black to the coil.
Then connect a jumper between the engine case to the metal frame of the coil.
Then just leave it that way until you DO get spark. You don't need anything else in the mix.
In this video...around 7 minutes I think...thealexman fires up a engine on the workbench using this method.
Also...I'm still questioning your points gap. I don't know why it should be near the max open end of the adjustment range...as it appears to be.