$80.00 for Hydraulic fluid change on Chevy Tracker?

[Adam-NLV]

Had my registration & smog check done today on my 99' Chevy Tracker 4 cyl. It passed but the Tech told me the transmission fluid needs a change as it's brown.

The serpentine belt is also dried and has some cracks, said he could do both for $179. I said I'd wait and he offered $129 for the smog & fluid change then lowered it to $80.oo for the hydraulic fluid.

I counter offered $50.oo but he declined. What is the charge for changing the automatic hydra fluid & filter on the 4 cyl Chevy Tracker?I

know there are some good eng mechanics out there, so I thought to ask. I know everything has gone up but that seems excessive.:33:

 

[OLD CT]

Buy the belt at auto parts and change it yourself, the tensioner has a spot on it usually the has a 3/8 socket wrench square. Under your hood should have the belt routing diagram. Money saved, right there... As far as changing your trans fluid. That could be the kiss of death. If the fluid isn't serviced regularly your removing all the friction material that the clutch packs released over time. They unhook a trans cooler line and suck the ALL the fluid out. 14 or so quarts on the Lincoln Town cars I worked on. What they don't do is drop the pan and change the filter. :nono: What you want to do, is do it the right way by dropping the trans pan and clean it and install a new filter and pan gasket+ around 4-5 quarts of fluid. And that could ALSO do you in if it was not serviced at the proper intervals. My new car was done at 30k and every 60 after that. Which has not happened yet. Lol! I'm at 45,000. Leave it alone kid.

 

[Rizingson]

The price of $80 is not a bad deal, if the job is done properly. The automatic transmission is not a place for novices to mess with. I'd be concerned about any tech telling me I needed something other than what I went in for. Part of his commission???? Get another opinion from a your dealer. If the fluid is brown, it would also have a burnt smell, meaning the clutch packs have been slipping and overheating has already happened. New fluid doesn't fix this underlying problem. Clutch dust usually ends up in the pan and settles as a gummy mixture. If removing the pan clean this out, when replacing the filter.

 

[Adam-NLV]

Thanks for the info, this is something that I spaced on even checking. The fluid is light brown.

I got the truck at 39k miles and it has 49K on it now. I will have it done but only at a shop that drops the pan to change the filter & gasket, I'm not sure I want to hassle with it myself as it sounds like a PITA to do at home with laying on the garage floor under the Tracker.

 

[cjpayne]

I've changed those filters many times. The potential mess can vary on the size of the tranny pan. My wife's 4x4 suburban is relatively easy with a normal size oil draining pan, but my 95 Lesabre(FrontWD) is a different story. I bought a way oversized pan for it and still needed another to catch all the dripping after the tranny pan was removed.
I change the filters at least every 40K and I can tell the difference right away with smoother shifting. If I remember correctly, GM vehicles usually require that the tranny filter be replaced @36K on new vehicles. I would check your owners manual and see if this was listed as ever done, reciepts, ect. Whether doing it yourself or not, make sure you get the filter kit that doesn't have the cork pan gasket. They're too easy to split when torquing down and if they do split, you've got more than a leak problem.

BTW, when checking the fluid level, the engine needs to be running and be sure not to overfill.

 

[Adam-NLV]

I've changed those filters many times. The potential mess can vary on the size of the tranny pan. My wife's 4x4 suburban is relatively easy with a normal size oil draining pan, but my 95 Lesabre(FrontWD) is a different story. I bought a way oversized pan for it and still needed another to catch all the dripping after the tranny pan was removed.
I change the filters at least every 40K and I can tell the difference right away with smoother shifting. If I remember correctly, GM vehicles usually require that the tranny filter be replaced @36K on new vehicles. I would check your owners manual and see if this was listed as ever done, reciepts, ect. Whether doing it yourself or not, make sure you get the filter kit that doesn't have the cork pan gasket. They're too easy to split when torquing down and if they do split, you've got more than a leak problem.

BTW, when checking the fluid level, the engine needs to be running and be sure not to overfill.

Thanks CJ. Check it out... I just found both volumes of the GM Service manuals for this 4wd SUV for $21.oo delivered! This will give me some confidence in seeing if I'm capable of doing the work myself, rather than just diving in and possibly screwing something up.:30:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/262144203060?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

BTW: If you can ever get a chance at getting a good condition Chevy Tracker, Nab it. This SUV is awesome for mountains or desert. Will follow through w/ maintenance to insure it's long term survival.:happy:

 

[Enginedoctor]

just saw this... 80, believe it or not, is relatively reasonable. do they use a BG flush machine to totally swap all the fluid? or is it a spill and fill? When i do the spill and fill, which requires removal of the pan (usually) i add about 4-5 quarts of fluid. in a tracker like that its undoubtedly dex/merc. if there's a drain plug on the pan you can do it that way. the filter i wouldnt REALLY worry about, as it's more like a sponge than an engine oil filter. cheap piece of mind, sure, but not critical, IMO... if they do the BG flush, they don't touch the filter anyways.

I agree with oldct on the belt swap. do it yourself. on the chevys the tensioner can be 3/8 or 1/2" square, or possibly a 15 or 16mm hex on the tensioner pulley itself.

And if you think $129 is a lot for the fluid swap, which takes about a half hour, keep in mind an hour of labor is $100, and then there's the materials on top of it.
When/if you do it yourself youll see why it's so much. i've taken a bath in ATF more times than i care to admit. at 50k miles just get it done then worry about it in another 50k...

 

[Adam-NLV]

just saw this... 80, believe it or not, is relatively reasonable. do they use a BG flush machine to totally swap all the fluid? or is it a spill and fill? When i do the spill and fill, which requires removal of the pan (usually) i add about 4-5 quarts of fluid. in a tracker like that its undoubtedly dex/merc. if there's a drain plug on the pan you can do it that way. the filter i wouldnt REALLY worry about, as it's more like a sponge than an engine oil filter. cheap piece of mind, sure, but not critical, IMO... if they do the BG flush, they don't touch the filter anyways.

I agree with oldct on the belt swap. do it yourself. on the chevys the tensioner can be 3/8 or 1/2" square, or possibly a 15 or 16mm hex on the tensioner pulley itself.

And if you think $129 is a lot for the fluid swap, which takes about a half hour, keep in mind an hour of labor is $100, and then there's the materials on top of it.
When/if you do it yourself youll see why it's so much. i've taken a bath in ATF more times than i care to admit. at 50k miles just get it done then worry about it in another 50k...

Hey EngDoc, no these guys 'Purrfect Auto Services' are not reputable and can be counted on to prey on folks that don't know about cars. they offer a $10.00 smog check that's how they get you in, then they put the pressure on you to get other things done, sometimes legit usually not. You can count on them to cut corners and not change the gasket or filter, just suck it out through the oil cooler as mentioned above.

With my Honda Prelude I use to have they told me the throttle cables were bad. I went to look and he pointed to the ignition wire cables, I quickly showed him my 'throttle cable' was fine and so were the ignition wires. He walked away knowing I've been around the block once or twice.

Just ordered the service manuals and will study and prob do it myself. Agreed that's the way to go, if you want to make sure it's done right.:16::3:

 

[Enginedoctor]

yeah... just like almost any other place... when you see the coupon for a $19.99 oil change, realize in reality they make no money on that. you're there for the upsells. i've worked at probably 10 dealers, and they all seem to do it the same, though the writers are who upsell things you don't need because the BG guy pays them to do so. what's worse, i've seen, and personally worked on, a few cars where something like a tie rod, or brakes were worn out, but the writer upsold them on a brake flush and coolant flush instead...
The writers don't fix cars from behind their desks. if you put a wrench in their hand and a broken car in front of them, it would be futile. they upsell gravy as they see fit. that's that.

Oh and what pisses me off the MOST is when places like 'iffy' lube run commercials saying dealership technicians are trying to screw you (by fixing any and all problems with your car) but then when you go to them (lube place) they fix NOTHING, can't diagnose anything, and at times put the wrong fluid in your car while simultaneously upselling garbage you don't need, like everyone else...

The car industry isn't a glamorous place.

 

[cjpayne]

There was a Ford dealership not to far from where I live that had the best service department for years. They were top notch and EXCELLENT professionals. They even gave me a nice lender car when they replaced a busted window on mine. My mother had bought a car from them a few years ago and they always took good care of her, often times fixing the small stuff for free and just sending her on her way. About a year ago the Chevy/GMC dealership down the road bought them out and that's when things apparantly went south. Around 5 or 6months ago, she took that same car in because the brake light was periodically coming on and had them go ahead and do a 20point inspection/service/oil change(they probably talked her into this). On her way home the light came on again and that's when she called me. From what I could tell, the brake reservoir was low on fluid, the tires had substantial variances in pressure, the oil had been changed and was overfilled about half a court which led me to find the filter was never changed, and the radiator overflow was below normal. So much for a 20point inspection. They lost her and my business forever. I've also heard some more over the past few months about them. Pretty sad.

 

[OLD CT]

yeah... just like almost any other place... when you see the coupon for a $19.99 oil change, realize in reality they make no money on that. you're there for the upsells. i've worked at probably 10 dealers, and they all seem to do it the same, though the writers are who upsell things you don't need because the BG guy pays them to do so. what's worse, i've seen, and personally worked on, a few cars where something like a tie rod, or brakes were worn out, but the writer upsold them on a brake flush and coolant flush instead...
The writers don't fix cars from behind their desks. if you put a wrench in their hand and a broken car in front of them, it would be futile. they upsell gravy as they see fit. that's that.

Oh and what pisses me off the MOST is when places like 'iffy' lube run commercials saying dealership technicians are trying to screw you (by fixing any and all problems with your car) but then when you go to them (lube place) they fix NOTHING, can't diagnose anything, and at times put the wrong fluid in your car while simultaneously upselling garbage you don't need, like everyone else...

The car industry isn't a glamorous place.

Not to mention stiffy lube cranks your drain plug on with a 1/2 drive impact gun! So you get a striped oil pan/plug and can't get the drain plug off without stripping the plug on the outside and it's already stripped inside!

That's their little way of making you come back because you can't remove it yourself now! They missed the part about finger tight and a 1/4 turn to tighten the plug, in grease monkey school...

 

[cjpayne]

Not to mention stiffy lube cranks your drain plug on with a 1/2 drive impact gun! So you get a striped oil pan/plug and can't get the drain plug off without stripping the plug on the outside and it's already stripped inside!

They also crank the oilfilter on so hard that it has to be practically twisted in two to get it back off.

 

[69ST]

Nice looking tracker, Adam. IMO, it's overdue for new tranny juice but as much because it's 15 years old, as the mileage. 40K is as far as I'd ever go between trans fluid changes and $80 to have the system flushed & filled isn't bad...if the shop is legit. The place I use charges $89 and runs 12 quarts through, unless the exiting fluid is not clean and even then, he only charges for the excess fluid. Dexron isn't expensive. The system flush method, using the cooler lines as access points, is about as good as it gets on anything much less than about 40 years old. It's the only practical means of flushing the converter. Once upon a time, torque converters had separate drain plugs.

If this was a RWD GM vehicle with a 4L60E trans, I'd say drop the pan...post-flush...and change the filter. I did that every other year with my late, lamented, `93 Astro van (this cost $55 at that time) and the trans was still healthy when the vehicle was totalled, just shy of 320,000 miles. But, the Tracker was a captive import, manufactured by Suzuki & "badge engineered" by the general. I'm not even sure that there is a replaceable transmission filter. Most FWD trans-axles only have screens. I'm not really familiar with Suzukis. They seemed to be pretty well engineered & assembled. Only issue I can recall from your machine's vintage was the EGR; it would clog and trigger the MIL. Saw a number of them replaced under warranty and that seemed to do the trick, never saw one come back with that problem a second time.

IMHO, Coolant & brake fluid should be changed every other year, the brake fluid especially. Coolant can be tested. However, ABS have a lot of expensive parts and DOT3 brake fluid pulls moisture from the air, with gusto. A legit shop will charge $50-60 to do a complete brake system flush. That's a helluva lot less than replacing a failed (due to internal rust) EBCM, or M/C. If you're going to keep a vehicle well past its manufacturer-intended retirement date, regular fluid changes are the cheapest mechanical insurance going. Ask me how I know this...

 

[Adam-NLV]

Nice looking tracker, Adam. IMO, it's overdue for new tranny juice but as much because it's 15 years old, as the mileage. 40K is as far as I'd ever go between trans fluid changes and $80 to have the system flushed & filled isn't bad...if the shop is legit.

If this was a RWD GM vehicle with a 4L60E trans, I'd say drop the pan...post-flush...and change the filter. I did that every other year with my late, lamented, `93 Astro van (this cost $55 at that time) and the trans was still healthy when the vehicle was totalled, just shy of 320,000 miles. But, the Tracker was a captive import, manufactured by Suzuki & "badge engineered" by the general. I'm not even sure that there is a replaceable transmission filter. Most FWD trans-axles only have screens.

Thanks racerX. Yep this is a definite re-badge by Chevy and incorporates the Suzuki engine & drive train, I believe. The body was re-deigned by GM a little but these were made in CAMI plant in Ingresoll Ontario. A very complicated evolution of this model by GM/Suzuki.

Here's a pic of the shift fly on the floor. It is rear wheel drive until you shift in 4wd. I'll see what the service manual says about changing fluid, curious about that myself.:38:




Now that I think about it, wouldn't want those smog-shop BozO's:34: messing with a complex/integrated drive system like this Tracker has.

 

[red69]

If this was a RWD GM vehicle with a 4L60E trans, I'd say drop the pan...post-flush...and change the filter. I did that every other year with my late, lamented, `93 Astro van (this cost $55 at that time) and the trans was still healthy when the vehicle was totalled, just shy of 320,000 miles.

I had one of those Astros ('86) for 16 years. I have to laugh when I think of Consumer Reports giving it a fail on the electrical system. The only problem I had was a bad AC compressor in the first 5,000 miles which was replaced under warranty. Great for hauling the family and my RC airplanes.

 

[Enginedoctor]

...Here's a pic of the shift fly on the floor. It is rear wheel drive until you shift in 4wd. I'll see what the service manual says about changing fluid, curious about that myself.:38:...

Yeah i mean at this point, if you wanna spend a day doing it, i'd bet the transfer case takes the same dex/merc your trans does. probably about 1.5 quarts or so.
If you wanna be a real stickler, putting new gear oil in the diffs is cheap insurance.

Not that i advise AGAINST regular maintenance, but my friend had a 'geo' tracker from the 90's, and it got hit on the side by a moron we mutually know, and was never repaired. Ugly as sin, it drove down the road relatively un-maintained, averaging 27 mpg (great for an suv) until 170k or so. a girl was borrowing the car, got rear ended, and received a check for her inconvenience to the tune of several grand, and the owner got some money as the car was totaled, and then used about $250 to buy it back from the insurance company and keep driving it.

I think he bought the car originally for $800 or so. i put a clutch cable in it and nothing else. seems like a great car in my book.

 

[Adam-NLV]

Thanks EngDoc Yep that 2.0 liter engine is geared perfect IMO for off roading if you want or highway cruisng & excellent fuel economy.

I heard they were very popular in S. America known as the Vitara because they have lot of unpaved dirt roads and lot of rain.

Depending on what country your were in, they were marketed as one of these: Geo Tracker, Suzuki Vitara, Chevrolet Grand Vitara, Chevrolet Tracker.

They all pretty much share the same platform and durable 4wd. Different engines and slightly different body styles. I paid $3.5K for mine, about the same price as a nicely restored CT-70 these days.:21::78:

 

[bc17a]

Now that I think about it, wouldn't want those smog-shop BozO's:34: messing with a complex/integrated drive system like this Tracker has.

My main rule with mechanics, if they or their shops are dirtier than the underside of my car, they don't touch it. I'm 99% sure your trans pan has a magnetic drain plug. I don't recommend pulling the pan or the filter unless you have a super clean place to work and, can lift it high enough to stay off your back while doing it. Pulling the plug will drain out about 2.5 quarts of fluid but there will still be a few quarts remaining within the clutch packs, valve bodies, cooler/lines and torque converter. Total capacity for your trans and converter is probably between 5 and 6 (WAG) quarts so you should do a few drain/fills (driving between each one) to rid the trans of the dirty fluid, or most of it. There will also be a grey goo (wear metal) on the drain plug magnet which is normal and will get better with each subsequent draining. As for your transfer case, check your owners manual as I don't think it uses the same ATF, it should call for 75w-90 gear oil or GM syncromesh. If you do drain and fill the xfer case, make sure you have the right square drive socket, either 10mm or 13mm, to remove the plugs. Don't use an extension, even though it may fit, or you risk rounding out the plugs. You'll also need a pump to add the oil.

 

[Adam-NLV]

My main rule with mechanics, if they or their shops are dirtier than the underside of my car, they don't touch it. I'm 99% sure your trans pan has a magnetic drain plug. I don't recommend pulling the pan or the filter unless you have a super clean place to work and, can lift it high enough to stay off your back while doing it. Pulling the plug will drain out about 2.5 quarts of fluid but there will still be a few quarts remaining within the clutch packs, valve bodies, cooler/lines and torque converter. Total capacity for your trans and converter is probably between 5 and 6 (WAG) quarts so you should do a few drain/fills (driving between each one) to rid the trans of the dirty fluid, or most of it. There will also be a grey goo (wear metal) on the drain plug magnet which is normal and will get better with each subsequent draining. As for your transfer case, check your owners manual as I don't think it uses the same ATF, it should call for 75w-90 gear oil or GM syncromesh. If you do drain and fill the xfer case, make sure you have the right square drive socket, either 10mm or 13mm, to remove the plugs. Don't use an extension, even though it may fit, or you risk rounding out the plugs. You'll also need a pump to add the oil.

Thanks bc17a, this is my first truck and first 4wd i've owned and I'm new to light truck maintenance. I've had some experienced changing fluid with mostly sedans & coupes like the 66 Ford C-4 trans, which is easy to work on and pretty much idiot & bullet-proof.

I've been in NLV for over ten years and I've yet to find a shop that I completely trust. Just seems like everyone's on the take, fast on the estimates (and as pointed out) w/no grease under their fingernails, It's hard to know who to trust. :44:

I might just bite the bullet and take it to the GM dealership and see how much they want for the belt & Hydra fluid and maybe brake fluid flush. Might be $150 over the prices I've heard quoted but at this point I think my peace of mind may be worth that.

I'll update this when i decide which way to go.:juggle:

 

[69ST]

I had one of those Astros ('86) for 16 years. I have to laugh when I think of Consumer Reports giving it a fail on the electrical system. The only problem I had was a bad AC compressor in the first 5,000 miles which was replaced under warranty. Great for hauling the family and my RC airplanes.

CR consistently rated GM's M-van below the Ford & Chrysler entries into the minivan field. Dammit...cup holders matter!:wank:

They were 20mpg tanks that were short enough to fit into garage spaces marked "compact car only". It was easy to fit a bike & 2 weeks worth of camping gear and with 1700lb payload capacity, the suspension never even got a real workout. The Achilles Heel, idler arms; 60,000 miles between replacements was doing well. Kinda surprising, imo, the front end mechanicals were otherwise lifted from the fullsize Chevy/GMC van. I had 5 of them, all of which were still running well past the 300,000-mile mark, 2 were still going past 400,000. I lost track of the last one early. `93 was the last year of the short body, that's why I kept it until the very expensive "radiator venison" incident. By then, the Astro was an orphan, dropped after '05 and the general's part support sucks.

Thanks bc17a, this is my first truck and first 4wd i've owned and I'm new to light truck maintenance. I've had some experienced changing fluid with mostly sedans & coupes like the 66 Ford C-4 trans, which is easy to work on and pretty much idiot & bullet-proof.

I've been in NLV for over ten years and I've yet to find a shop that I completely trust. Just seems like everyone's on the take, fast on the estimates (and as pointed out) w/no grease under their fingernails, It's hard to know who to trust.

I might just bite the bullet and take it to the GM dealership and see how much they want for the belt & Hydra fluid and maybe brake fluid flush. Might be $150 over the prices I've heard quoted but at this point I think my peace of mind may be worth that.

I'll update this when i decide which way to go.

IMHO, you're thinking like a survivor and that is smart. The driveline in this vehicle is unlike anything you've ever worked on and you're right, they are far from "idiot proof". The lack of simple drain plugs ought to be a red flag. FWIW, I've been spinning my own wrenches for better than 40 years, now...and I won't touch an FWD transaxle, let alone a Japanese transfer case, not worth the hassle/mess and risk. A rebuild could easily exceed the 2015 book value of the vehicle. And I agree with you, the number of good shops is in a state of rapid decline. It's a shitty state of affairs but, until such time as the country is controlled by something other than megalithic corporations who write their own rules...and laws...it's not gonna change for the better. Due diligence is the best approach, there are still some honest & competent shops out there.

You might do well to ask around (you must have met a fellow gearhead, or two, over the last decade), maybe google "Chevy Tracker/Suzuki Sidekick NLV" and see what comes up. You can't be the only owner in your area. Fluid changes aren't rocket science, either. In the end, a dealership may be the best option but, beware...line mechanics tend to get kinda pissy when it comes to working on "old crap"...anything more than 2-3 years old, in their view. Some dealership service departments are very good, worth the premium price, others are just plain .