Engine locked-mechanic error probable

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Oldgreenpaint

New Member
Well hello to the community. 72 year old man that has a 1971 ct70 3 speed automatic. Had this bike for almost 50 years, and my kids hammered and beat it up pretty badly. It has not ran in 20 years. So I have started to do a mechanical restoration. The engine was loose and turned freely, but seemed to have little if any compression.

The kick start shaft Splines were worn away so I got a new shaft and split the cases with the clutch side facing up. Supported on lumber so the case would be stable. Pulled the case half off, carefully not moving the transmission gears. Didn’t want to get into that mess. I was happy to see that the kickstart shaft was easy to remove without messing with the transmission gears. So replaced the shaft, thought I had it all OK. Got the clutch side case in place, had to wiggle it around some to get the case half to drop into position. Continued with the engine assembly.

Got it all together and I have problems. The crankshaft will turn but only about one quarter to one half revolution. Kick starter seems to engage sometimes, and other times it just free wheels through.

looks like I need to open it up again, but I am somewhat stumped on what I did wrong? Any ideas? I took pictures and thought I had assembled it correctly.
 
OLD CT

OLD CT

Well-Known Member
Congrats on doing it yourself! I agree, just take it apart and inspect it again. If you live close to a member here, you may get some in person help. Post up your town/state. Lots of helpful people here.
 
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lukelaw1

Active Member
welcome to lilhonda, we can get you straightened out, but "we" will have limitation over a keyboard and through a screen,
do you have a repair manual?

If not, I would invest in one, in my opinion I prefer the Clymer manual here is a link maybe even check your local library????

pictures would help on out end, just to start off there are shims on the counter shaft, kickstart shaft etc.
 
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Oldgreenpaint

New Member
Thanks Old CT and L! I’m a pretty good wrench, usually. Not this time I guess? I bought the online version of the Honda shop manual. It seems like it leaves a lot of knowledge to be assumed. Is the Climer more user friendly? I live near Cedar Rapids, Iowa.

I tried to be very careful pulling it apart, not to dislodge parts unless I had to. I think I did something wrong with the kickstart. Part number 2 in this exploded view seemed to stump me. I couldn’t figure out a nesting place for it. Seemed like it had some ability to move around?
FE6B6D1A-3C78-481C-AD78-2A0E2244C386.jpeg
 
OLD CT

OLD CT

Well-Known Member
#2 just snaps on the kicker gear and sit's in the cavity in the case. Easy. You do want to wind the spring and cam # 4 in before putting it in it's spot, to get a little tension on it. Make sure the kick shaft thrust washer goes where it's supposed to go, it goes on right before assembling the case halves go together, so the kick shaft will not want walk out.
 
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Oldgreenpaint

New Member
lukelaw1 said:
No way!!! Im in Manchester. I'd be happy to help you no charge, I also have a spare manual i could loan you
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Actually. Central City. Name is Steve. phone 319-533-4543. If u want to call at your convienience. I have grandchildren to watch tomorrow, perhaps sometime next week?
 
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Oldgreenpaint

New Member
OLD CT said:
#2 just snaps on the kicker gear and sit's in the cavity in the case. Easy. You do want to wind the spring and cam # 4 in before putting it in it's spot, to get a little tension on it. Make sure the kick shaft thrust washer goes where it's supposed to go, it goes on right before assembling the case halves go together, so the kick shaft will not want walk out.
Click to expand...
I remember winding the spring. Pretty sure I got it right.
 
L

lukelaw1

Active Member
I sent you a private message, this message can be viewed at the upper right portion of the lilhoda webpage, next to your login name, the little envelope
 
OLD CT

OLD CT

Well-Known Member
That kickshaft looks suspect, it seems fatter all the way around. Wonder if the gear can slide freely? Place it in the case half and turn it in both directions. It should engage and disengage easy. Bet that's the problem.
 
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Oldgreenpaint

New Member
OLD CT said:
That kickshaft looks suspect, it seems fatter all the way around. Wonder if the gear can slide freely? Place it in the case half and turn it in both directions. It should engage and disengage easy. Bet that's the problem.
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Children and grandchildren headed back to Ankeny this morning. I will dig into it after lunch. I see what you mean looking at them side by side. I know I tried the gear out on the new shaft. But I’ll get the dial caliper out and look them both over and compare.
 
kirrbby

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
That friction spring...tab, that sticks out from the pinion gear, HAS to be set into the notch in the case, for the pinion to engage...and DISengage properly.

As OLD CT mentioned above.
 
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Oldgreenpaint

New Member
kirrbby said:
View attachment 80075

This notch
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Thanks to all three of you. I was able to meet Luke today, and learned a whole lot about my little Honda. The Clymer manual he loaned me is ten times better than my Honda shop manual. It explains things much better.

Luke also had many old parts, and was able to show me a case half where that little number two part should nest. I am pretty confident that I did not get it right. I won’t get a chance to tear down again before Monday morning. I’ll report back what I find.

This is a great forum. Thanks again!
 
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Oldgreenpaint

New Member
I dismantled the engine today. And as suspected, the #2 part, friction spring as kirrbby called it, was not installed correctly. Using just the Honda service manual as reference, I don’t think proper orientation is even mentioned. They are assuming I would know, and since this is my first time into that engine, I did not know. I looked at it and wondered, How does this really work? The notch it fits into is in what I would call the top half of the two cases, and I just didn’t notice it. I just left the part loose in the crankcase, figuring it would contact the side of the case and would then allow the kick gear to move into the transmission gear and start the engine. Obviously not correct. The Climer manual Luke loaned me shows and explains it much better.

Anyway….once I got that little arm into the notch, it seems to be fine. Moving the new shaft with the kick arm engages and turns the transmission gear and shaft as it should. I have the two cases screwed together with two,screws, as I try to figure out the next puzzle.

But, another problem maybe? I’ll explain below. Anyway here is a picture of friction spring as I found it when I split the cases.
.
2F30E613-54A6-4CEA-B315-16D524F0CE40.jpeg


Here is a picture of how it should have been assembled.
7DCA6B76-ED62-47AB-8D47-B3A0E0D3520E.jpeg


As I was taking one last look at the insides before buttoning it up, I noticed what I first thought to be a piece of dirt. Looking closer, I found it to be a very small tension spring, about 3/8” long and 1/16” in diameter. It was laying on the second gear down in this picture, right in middle of picture

C8171336-F1F3-46F5-B73E-3FE0B181AFD3.jpeg


Here is a pic of the spring laying on the bench with a caliper by it to judge size.

14709488-F6A7-4758-AC2B-74A320D7AF48.jpeg


I have no idea where this came from? Does it register with any of you? One possibility is that it got accidentally transferred via a magnetic pickup device that I do use. Maybe not a part of the Honda at all?
 
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kirrbby

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
It's a small piece of the coiled wire that you find inside of a oil seal. It's basically just a piece of trash.
 
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