Retrobikes.com...BEWARE!!!
- Thread starter moonz
- Start date
makotosun
Member
If the bike actually came from Hooper, you might contact them directly regarding the paperwork. They indicated to me that their bikes do come with the proper documents needed to get them licensed. I have not purchased from them, but they seem to have a decent rep.
Too bad on your experience. I would definitely do the reports to the agencies, but by posting here you probably do more good!
Too bad on your experience. I would definitely do the reports to the agencies, but by posting here you probably do more good!
TrailRyd3r
Member
I'm sorry for all your misfortune.
My dad is a dealer for Hooper Imports, and they are a good business, I guess that retrobikes screwed you, and I'm sorry, but I have to defend the very bikes I am trying to sell out of my shop right now. These bikes DO NOT come ready to ride, it takes a little while to get them going on the road. I know they come with minor damage, all of ours did too, its just part of shipping, think about how far these little bikes have to travel to make it here, its crazy. I wish they could be perfect, but they never will, they are to cheap to be any where near it, just have to try and make the best out of em, I know I do everyday
My dad is a dealer for Hooper Imports, and they are a good business, I guess that retrobikes screwed you, and I'm sorry, but I have to defend the very bikes I am trying to sell out of my shop right now. These bikes DO NOT come ready to ride, it takes a little while to get them going on the road. I know they come with minor damage, all of ours did too, its just part of shipping, think about how far these little bikes have to travel to make it here, its crazy. I wish they could be perfect, but they never will, they are to cheap to be any where near it, just have to try and make the best out of em, I know I do everyday
I'm not ready to start lobbing bricks at Hooper, due to insufficient information. It sounds like the seller, Retrobikes, is a scamster. The main problem, I believe, is the whole "race to the bottom" that's taken hold, largely abetted by ebay where the PRC clones are concerned. As the prices get lower, the quality follows. Chinese manufacturers are bound by the same realities as those in any other country...you get what you pay for (unless someone rips you off). While Honda still made CT70s, the bikes weren't sold on the basis of price alone and they arrived on our shores intact. Of course, they cost a lot more than current crop of knockoffs, too.
The earliest clones were really rough, initially. But this improved somewhat after the initial production runs. The Jincheng bikes were relatively reliable. They were, of course, beset with minor failures of small parts and finish quality wasn't the greatest either, but for the most part they ran and the brakes worked. There was even some parts support. Jincheng, is also know as Suzuki of China. Over the past 2-3 years, it seems like the bottom is dropping out. I recently attended a huge bike meet where the number of CT70s & clones was amazing. I saw at least 50 people riding CT70s, most of which were Hondas. I also met with a number of dealers, nearly all of whom said the same thing...the quality level has dropped-off precipitously. Most of them are no longer selling clone bikes for the reasons you mentioned. They used to sell Jincheng, Dirt Dobber, Redcat, Rupp and other monikers until the `05 season when the problems became serious for a dealer with a hands-on customer service presence.
Personally, after just seeing vintage Hondas and at least three generations of clones parked side-by-side, the whole PRC bike picture isn't very encouraging. The only aspect that's improved (at least outwardly) is the finish on the engine cases. The smoked chrome finish on some of the Lifan engines looked pretty nice. However, along with the paint runs and generally rough finishing I noticed that this time around even the frames had visible warpage...as assembled Even my wife commented on the crude-appearing workmanship(!)
At this late date, I have to wonder if any of the bikes built to a higher quality standard are even being imported into the US. The best of the clones, circa 2001, retailed for close to $2K. It's hard to imagine that such bikes would fare very well on ebay, for example, against similar-appearing bikes that frequently sell for 3-figure prices. No one in his right mind is going to invest money into an unprofitable product. (The $300 CT70 of 1969 would cost better than $3K in 2006.) I know it doesn't do much good to say this, but it really is buyer beware. Certainly, this thread will help avoid the known shady sellers. There's also an engine service life thread elsewhere in this forum that will consist of people's actual experiences with various models over extended mileages and that should help separate the wheat from the chaff over time.
The earliest clones were really rough, initially. But this improved somewhat after the initial production runs. The Jincheng bikes were relatively reliable. They were, of course, beset with minor failures of small parts and finish quality wasn't the greatest either, but for the most part they ran and the brakes worked. There was even some parts support. Jincheng, is also know as Suzuki of China. Over the past 2-3 years, it seems like the bottom is dropping out. I recently attended a huge bike meet where the number of CT70s & clones was amazing. I saw at least 50 people riding CT70s, most of which were Hondas. I also met with a number of dealers, nearly all of whom said the same thing...the quality level has dropped-off precipitously. Most of them are no longer selling clone bikes for the reasons you mentioned. They used to sell Jincheng, Dirt Dobber, Redcat, Rupp and other monikers until the `05 season when the problems became serious for a dealer with a hands-on customer service presence.
Personally, after just seeing vintage Hondas and at least three generations of clones parked side-by-side, the whole PRC bike picture isn't very encouraging. The only aspect that's improved (at least outwardly) is the finish on the engine cases. The smoked chrome finish on some of the Lifan engines looked pretty nice. However, along with the paint runs and generally rough finishing I noticed that this time around even the frames had visible warpage...as assembled
Even my wife commented on the crude-appearing workmanship(!)At this late date, I have to wonder if any of the bikes built to a higher quality standard are even being imported into the US. The best of the clones, circa 2001, retailed for close to $2K. It's hard to imagine that such bikes would fare very well on ebay, for example, against similar-appearing bikes that frequently sell for 3-figure prices. No one in his right mind is going to invest money into an unprofitable product. (The $300 CT70 of 1969 would cost better than $3K in 2006.) I know it doesn't do much good to say this, but it really is buyer beware. Certainly, this thread will help avoid the known shady sellers. There's also an engine service life thread elsewhere in this forum that will consist of people's actual experiences with various models over extended mileages and that should help separate the wheat from the chaff over time.
When I was a kid in the 60's and 70's, I don't remember CT70's on the showroom floor with dents and paint scratches after the trip from Japan. When a dealer gets a product that has damage, it usually gets rectified. That's just the cost of doing business. MG (I have one of these toys too!) had an entire department devoted to product rectification to fix such damage before presenting the cars to the public for sale.
My thought is that a company that purports to sell you something brand spanking new and sends you a damaged product without saying so or adjusting the price is fraudulent.
My thought is that a company that purports to sell you something brand spanking new and sends you a damaged product without saying so or adjusting the price is fraudulent.
TrailRyd3r
Member
moonz said:
Whoa, hold on a sec!
My dad is a dealer for Hooper Imports, he is NOT the owner and we have nothing to do with what just happened to you and your situation. We just get a few bikes here and there and sell them here locally in Kansas. So I know it sucks that you got screwed by retrobikes, but we had nothing to do with it. I am in no way related to the owner of Hooper Imports, my dad is just the Kansas dealer and thats it, wow.
TrailRyd3r
Member
No problem.
We are trying to get rid of the remaining bikes we have got from Hooper and we are only gonna order when people wanna buy em. I had a lil pitbull bike 70cc sitting out by the street last night, and there is a huge park down the street from me and football practice has started for the little kids, I had 3 people stop and take a look, very high traffic, so I hope I can sell em all this month. But I am sorry about what happened to you.
I bought a Redcat CT w/90cc from a guy just outside of town 2 yrs ago, it was my first repo. Got it for $765, I was in love I rode it 1300 miles and the carb. choke flap screw fell loose into the motor and locked it up (while I was going to work) and my dad got me a 110cc Lifan for real cheap to replace the 90cc, but other than that it has been a awesome bike, just little stuff here and there, I recommend putting a fuel filter on right away cause these tanks are metal and crap gets in the bottom of the tank.
We are trying to get rid of the remaining bikes we have got from Hooper and we are only gonna order when people wanna buy em. I had a lil pitbull bike 70cc sitting out by the street last night, and there is a huge park down the street from me and football practice has started for the little kids, I had 3 people stop and take a look, very high traffic, so I hope I can sell em all this month. But I am sorry about what happened to you.
I bought a Redcat CT w/90cc from a guy just outside of town 2 yrs ago, it was my first repo. Got it for $765, I was in love
I rode it 1300 miles and the carb. choke flap screw fell loose into the motor and locked it up (while I was going to work) and my dad got me a 110cc Lifan for real cheap to replace the 90cc, but other than that it has been a awesome bike, just little stuff here and there, I recommend putting a fuel filter on right away cause these tanks are metal and crap gets in the bottom of the tank.Valid points on all sides, with one exception. I doubt that Hooper Imports had knowledge of Retrobike's exact pricing or business practices. Drop shipping is common practice these days. Retrobikes could, conceivably, have gone to Hooper on a one-shot basis to fulfill your order. No telling what effect, if any, this had on the unit cost of your specific bike. It just seems to me, based strictly on what's been said here, that Retrobikes bears the responsibility for misrepresentations & questionable ethics. It was their hype to which the product didn't live up to. In your shoes, I'd probably be even angrier but, (dis)credit where it's due. If I believe the Kia dealer who tells me that his cars are better quality than Lexus, it's not Kia Motors with whom I have a dispute, it's the specific dealer. In this example, just as with your personal experience, the actual supplier of the product is, effectively, an outside third party to the transaction, regardless of the quality of the product. I agree, dishonesty should not be rewarded at all, just that retribution should be directed toward the guilty party alone. Even though it appears to be a longshot, I do hope you receive some compensation.
NHScrambler
New Member
Where is a good plcae to buy a 110CC bike - I communicated with Hooper regarding registering one of their bikes if I bought one, and they were very repsonsive and sounded fine.
Always, if you can, pay with a credit card
credit cards offer much protection against this sort of thing..You call them and get your money taken off the card.. I have a $1.300. piece of crap in the barn that the company wouln't even Pay to have it sent back! I got my money back and have a crap bike. Many credit cards double manufacters warrenties on anything purchased.. Bottom line is that you are supposed to be pleased with what you spend your hard earned money on.
credit cards offer much protection against this sort of thing..You call them and get your money taken off the card.. I have a $1.300. piece of crap in the barn that the company wouln't even Pay to have it sent back! I got my money back and have a crap bike. Many credit cards double manufacters warrenties on anything purchased.. Bottom line is that you are supposed to be pleased with what you spend your hard earned money on.
That's a piss-cutter, to be sure Looks like you have a legitmate gripe with retrobikes. Better download, archive & print hard copies of what they promised. As to Hooper, I can sort of understand why they blew you off, but here was an opportunity to generate some goodwill and instead they screwed the pooch. If I were the supplier, I'd try to supply the missing MSO with the thought of you, the customer, generating some word-of-mouth referrals. Making a living selling bikes isn't easy, a bit of customer support after the sale is one way of separating the men from the boys. If they are unable to supply an MSO, that's one thing. Stating "it's not my responsibility" is quite another.
If you really get stuck, you may be able to buy a bare CT70 frame and use the parts from the new bike. That should allow you to legally register the bike. The downsides are that a vintage frame will have to be refinished and usually, with longterm ownership, virtually everything but the frame gets replaced on the clone bikes, which kinda defeats the whole process.
Looks like you have a legitmate gripe with retrobikes. Better download, archive & print hard copies of what they promised. As to Hooper, I can sort of understand why they blew you off, but here was an opportunity to generate some goodwill and instead they screwed the pooch. If I were the supplier, I'd try to supply the missing MSO with the thought of you, the customer, generating some word-of-mouth referrals. Making a living selling bikes isn't easy, a bit of customer support after the sale is one way of separating the men from the boys. If they are unable to supply an MSO, that's one thing. Stating "it's not my responsibility" is quite another.If you really get stuck, you may be able to buy a bare CT70 frame and use the parts from the new bike. That should allow you to legally register the bike. The downsides are that a vintage frame will have to be refinished and usually, with longterm ownership, virtually everything but the frame gets replaced on the clone bikes, which kinda defeats the whole process.
I am sorry to hear of this. I came VERY close to buying one of their clones and spoke to this Joe Brinker guy a couple of times since there seemed to be a HUGE difference in price. He justified his selling price by itemizing the differences in his product versus the competition. What happended to you is just plain wrong! I have found that ordering from the Internet is very risky.
As far as contacting the BBB, etc.., that is a great move. I had some problems with Buckeye E-bikes. In order to get my money back, I contacted the Ohio BBB and the Ohio Attourney Generals office. The BBB is OK but the Attourney General's office scares the crap out of these scammers, especially if they get more than one complaint. The moment I told Buckeye E-bikes that I reported them to the AG's office, I had my money back 3 days later.
I have 2 CT70 clones (Redcats). One, I got from 1Trail.com and the other from Capital Motorbikes. I've had problems with both but Capital Motorbikes has a pretty good mechanic that works on them and he helped me get them running.
I hope you get some action from the BBB and the AG's office. I would try to get my money back or at least the difference in what it's worth vs. what you paid.
Best of luck!!!
As far as contacting the BBB, etc.., that is a great move. I had some problems with Buckeye E-bikes. In order to get my money back, I contacted the Ohio BBB and the Ohio Attourney Generals office. The BBB is OK but the Attourney General's office scares the crap out of these scammers, especially if they get more than one complaint. The moment I told Buckeye E-bikes that I reported them to the AG's office, I had my money back 3 days later.
I have 2 CT70 clones (Redcats). One, I got from 1Trail.com and the other from Capital Motorbikes. I've had problems with both but Capital Motorbikes has a pretty good mechanic that works on them and he helped me get them running.
I hope you get some action from the BBB and the AG's office. I would try to get my money back or at least the difference in what it's worth vs. what you paid.
Best of luck!!!
oilspot
Member
You did buisness with retrobikes. (Is there any way to make a period bolder???) I'd leave hooper out of it.. You decided to do buisness with retrobikes then that is who you need to deal with.
It's kinda like buying a rolex at a swapmeet and then trying to "make it right" at your local authorized rolex dealer. You decided to do buisness at the swapmeet.
I say this without knowing a thing about hooper or retrobikes so I'm not endorsing or putting down either company. (disclaimer due to a sue happy nation)
For all I know retrobikes could be a great company and the shiper beat the hell out of the bike and lost all the paperwork.
There's something to be said about doing buisness in person. The internet brings great deals, but then again when I buy something in person your not taking near as many chances.
It's kinda like buying a rolex at a swapmeet and then trying to "make it right" at your local authorized rolex dealer. You decided to do buisness at the swapmeet.
I say this without knowing a thing about hooper or retrobikes so I'm not endorsing or putting down either company. (disclaimer due to a sue happy nation)
For all I know retrobikes could be a great company and the shiper beat the hell out of the bike and lost all the paperwork.
There's something to be said about doing buisness in person. The internet brings great deals, but then again when I buy something in person your not taking near as many chances.
At this late date, it's pretty tough not doing business over the web and there are many web-based outfits that are reliable. I've found some with very high standards in terms of ethics, integrity and customer service. Same with ebay. In six years, I've had 99% positive experiences as both buyer and seller. Problem is, it doesn't take many turds floating in the pool to scare everyone away. So, if someone is delivering far less than they promised, with no real attempt to rectify the situation then they deserve what they get. Even in a litigation-happy society, some lawsuits are justified.
"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that no one's out to get you"
"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that no one's out to get you"
Sounds like they put a lot of thought into screwing you and others. Theyve pretty much got all the bases covered here. No doubt some lawyer was involved in this foolproof, no come back sales method. Short of a shotgun I dont see any way out for you, they have you by the sack. It will catch up to them eventually but a lot of people will get burned in the mean time
heheh...gee...thanks for those comforting words of wisdom! I guess you would have enjoyed the thread more if I'd have been talking about slitting my wrists, or jumping off of a bridge, for paying too much...
I think by now most of the regulars that frequent this messageboard have read my story, and I'm fairly sure that they'll think twice before they do any business with Retrobikes. This is all I intended. This is my revenge.
I can always tell when I've gone too far with a thread when I start getting comments like this last one. I should have ended it a while back.
Retrobikes is threatening to sue me for slander for posting my story here so I went ahead and deleted my contributions.
Have a good life, all, and have fun riding those overpowered CT70s...I'm sure I will...even if it is a stupid little Hooper Imports clone that I paid way too much for.
And Larry Hooper..please don't sue me for slander because I called the little thing "stupid"!
-moonz-
I think by now most of the regulars that frequent this messageboard have read my story, and I'm fairly sure that they'll think twice before they do any business with Retrobikes. This is all I intended. This is my revenge.
I can always tell when I've gone too far with a thread when I start getting comments like this last one. I should have ended it a while back.
Retrobikes is threatening to sue me for slander for posting my story here so I went ahead and deleted my contributions.
Have a good life, all, and have fun riding those overpowered CT70s...I'm sure I will...even if it is a stupid little Hooper Imports clone that I paid way too much for.
And Larry Hooper..please don't sue me for slander because I called the little thing "stupid"!
-moonz-
TrailPunisher
Member
I`ll say this- clone bikes are not worth more than $1,000 max with a 110cc engine.
Their retail price range should be $500-$1,000 so anything over that is too much $$$
Their retail price range should be $500-$1,000 so anything over that is too much $$$
kenfyoozed
Member
Mooz,
Would you mind posting what ever you recieved from Retrobikes, stating their intentions toward you? If you cant I understand. But I will say this, I had planned on buying a couple of parts, ie... the left handle bar swith with the manual clutch attatched. I had still planned on buying from them even after I heard about this story. My thinking was , Well all I need are parts, im sure they can handle those. But after reading they may be persuing legal actions against you, I would not order from them at all.
If what ever happened was their mistake, they should fix it. If you are making this stuff up,( Im not saying you are, just stay with me for a second) , They should take what ever you say in public forums with a grain of salt. Every company has customers who bad mouth them from time to time. Its the nature of the beast. At least to me, if they DID contact you and told/asked you to stop speaking of this situation, then I find they are guilty as charged and I WILL stay away from them!
So I guess you got your job done, on a small scale! Way to go!
Neil
Would you mind posting what ever you recieved from Retrobikes, stating their intentions toward you? If you cant I understand. But I will say this, I had planned on buying a couple of parts, ie... the left handle bar swith with the manual clutch attatched. I had still planned on buying from them even after I heard about this story. My thinking was , Well all I need are parts, im sure they can handle those. But after reading they may be persuing legal actions against you, I would not order from them at all.
If what ever happened was their mistake, they should fix it. If you are making this stuff up,( Im not saying you are, just stay with me for a second) , They should take what ever you say in public forums with a grain of salt. Every company has customers who bad mouth them from time to time. Its the nature of the beast. At least to me, if they DID contact you and told/asked you to stop speaking of this situation, then I find they are guilty as charged and I WILL stay away from them!
So I guess you got your job done, on a small scale! Way to go!
Neil
TrailRyd3r
Member
TrailPunisher said: