Do I have this “spacer” right?

Clayton

Active Member
Good evening everyone, I am wondering if I have this spacer between my head and carb in the right spot on my K5 Z50A. I have seen in it on the head side and on the carb side in pics and diagrams I have found online. My CT90 has it on the carb side. Iv included pics of both. Any and all info is greatly appreciated.
Thanks again
Clayton
 

Attachments

  • AAFE93C8-29B9-42D0-B17E-7528301BA61A.jpeg
    AAFE93C8-29B9-42D0-B17E-7528301BA61A.jpeg
    771.3 KB · Views: 166
  • 3B966DC2-797A-48F9-B4BD-A4E67B0C7CBA.jpeg
    3B966DC2-797A-48F9-B4BD-A4E67B0C7CBA.jpeg
    762.4 KB · Views: 148

red69

Well-Known Member
By the way, the CT90A has an insulator at both ends of the intake pipe. Subsequent models through K6 have only one, at the carb end.
 

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
I've always heard that you want a HOT intake, but cool carb.
I put mine at the carb end.
If I NEED a spacer at the head, I make one out of aluminum...to allow heat into the intake manifold.
 

red69

Well-Known Member
Kirby, why would you want a hot intake? Cooler mixture is a denser mixture and would help if the expansion takes place in the cylinder head, not the intake pipe. I understand that the CT70 is that configuration, but I'm sure Honda placed the insulator correctly on their models with the insulator at the head.
 

Jeckler

Member
One reason is probably intake freeze from the venturi effect.
Back when I was into aircooled VW's, I drove from San Diego to Sacramento one year for Bugorama and somewhere around Fresno IIRC I all of a sudden had cruise control. IOW, the carb had sufficiently froze enough to stick the butterfly. Thankfully just for a few seconds.
VW had part of the exhaust that would run from one side, up and over to the other, but connected to the intake manifold. 20 years of use later, that small pipe was clogged shut with carbon and there was no flow, and no heat in the manifold. When I pulled over, there was ice all over the carb and part of the intake manifold. The car didn't run so hot ( pun intended) either, until I let it sit in a parking lot for a while and melt it off.
Ambient temp at the time was probably high 70s.
 

Gary

Well-Known Member
+1 the short intakes seem to have the insulator right at the head. Take a look at the S65's long inlet manifold-Honda actually had the hot oil go to the carb first before continuing to the cylinder head. The line out of the right side case was insulated too,the return line to the cylinder was bare . Probably heated the intake and cooled the oil a little as well.
 

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
The intake can freeze up...and freeze the carb on long runs, sucking alot of air. And, the hot intake helps fuel to...atomize...I think. It's more likely to condense in a cold intake.

I'm sure that the stock setup works perfectly on a stock bike. But for big engines in street ridden bikes...hot intake.
 

red69

Well-Known Member
I guess that's a why carburetor equipped aircraft engines have carb heat and is actuated when landing at the time the engine is at idle.
 

red69

Well-Known Member
My '66 GTO had a heat riser that allowed hot exhaust manifold air to heat carb exit air. On my '96 Trans Am there was a radiator water connection to the throttle body to aid in cold weather driveability. A common mod was to re-route the water lines to bypass the throttle body to allow for cooler air ingestion. I never noticed any cold weather running problems after modifying the plumbing.
 

OLD CT

Well-Known Member
Trying to jet a carb with the aftermarket plastic spacer at the head is a nightmare. The icing can be heard cruising at 50 plus over an extended street run even on the hottest day. The intake gets way too cold... A normal stock 72cc is very hard to ice in the stock form. Why would the aftermarket company's do this with their bore up kits that make more power? No clue... It sure doesn't help anything or make more power than it would without it.
 

Clayton

Active Member
All good info but I’m still a little confused lol!! I figured I had one of them wrong but according to red69 they are supposed to be different. I guess I’ll leave them as they are.
 

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
If you're just wanting to make them stock...they're right... From what I see on the parts diagrams.
If you have a VERY early CT90 K0 it looks like the earliest bikes had a thick spacer at the head AND a thinner one at the carb.
ALL of the early Z50s have the spacer at the head.
 

scooter

Well-Known Member
Just my two cents - I’d go with the parts diagram for placement and view it as an alignment issue where one pushes the carb a little higher and pulls it forward with respect to the air filter housing. I’d want things to assemble and fit properly
 

69ST

Well-Known Member
When all else fails, go with the factory-stock assembly sequence. Generally speaking...and especially for roadgoing bikes, it's usually best running a "hot" intake. EFI, especially automotive OE is a world apart from carburetors and small, air cooled, engines. A reasonably complete explanation would be lengthy. Suffice it to say that there is an optimal temperature range for both intake & carburetor and maintaining that is a balancing act, between engine heat and latent heat of vaporization inside the intake & intake port. Fuel cannot burn unless it's vapor. Transforming liquid fuel to a gaseous (vapor) state functionally creates refrigeration. On a normally-aspirated, carb-fed, engine, I'd like to see intake temp somewhere between 80-150F. In the real world, that rarely happens, except at low speeds. I've run induction setups with the intake directly attached to the intake port, nothing more than an O-ring to seal it, ensuring metal-to-metal contact...carb insulated by virtue of a rubber boot/flange adapter at the carb end. In the highest ambient air temps where I ride...mid 90s...a few miles spent above 50mph leaves the intake cold to the touch, and sweating like a glass of iced tea.

I have never had an intake reach the boiling point of water. OTOH, running a cold intake...larger displacement, insulator between the head & intake...has caused running issues in ambient air temps below 70F. Throttle response becomes a little unpredictable. Much below ~55F, intake temp can drop below freezing, making the bike almost unusable. If one is a fair-weather rider, it's a non-issue.

On my '96 Trans Am there was a radiator water connection to the throttle body to aid in cold weather driveability. A common mod was to re-route the water lines to bypass the throttle body to allow for cooler air ingestion. I never noticed any cold weather running problems after modifying the plumbing.
Heating the throttle body with engine coolant, doesn't make much difference, the amount of radiating surface contacting the incoming air is minuscule. I've experience with the GM EFI of the era (`94 Z28) and custom (Lingenfelter Super Ram, using a 1000CFM GM throttle body, sans coolant flow). Ever try placing a hand on the plenum once the engine has been running for a while? It's painful to the touch, meaning 150F+. Frankly, ambient air temp has more impact on the density of the incoming charge. A cold-air inlet might give you a couple of tenths quicker ET and that's it.
 
Top