Do I need a VIN plate or is the frame stamped VIN enough?

S

Shamrockwill

Member
I recently had my ST90 frame powder coated. I specifically told the guy to not coat the stainless steel trim on the top of the frame or the VIN plate. When I got it back I was in a hurry to get to work so I wrapped it in a blanket, paid and left. Now that I am ready to start putting the bike back together I notice that he coated the trim as well as the VIN plate. That means he also bead blasted them before coating. Coated trim is annoying but what I'm really worried about is the VIN plate. This bike has not been registered in 20 years but I do have the old registration. The VIN stamped on the frame is kind of hard to read now as well with the thick coating over it but it is definitely readable. Will I be able to get it registered in California with the frame stamped VIN only and no VIN plate?
 
M

mikesminitrail

New Member
Shamrockwill said:
I recently had my ST90 frame powder coated. I specifically told the guy to not coat the stainless steel trim on the top of the frame or the VIN plate. When I got it back I was in a hurry to get to work so I wrapped it in a blanket, paid and left. Now that I am ready to start putting the bike back together I notice that he coated the trim as well as the VIN plate. That means he also bead blasted them before coating. Coated trim is annoying but what I'm really worried about is the VIN plate. This bike has not been registered in 20 years but I do have the old registration. The VIN stamped on the frame is kind of hard to read now as well with the thick coating over it but it is definitely readable. Will I be able to get it registered in California with the frame stamped VIN only and no VIN plate?
Click to expand...
If it was registered before you should not have to do a VIN verification with the highway patrol. If you need a VIN verification in my experience you need a VIN tag also
 
S

Shamrockwill

Member
The sticker on the VIN plate also bubbled in the powder coat oven so now I have a little rectangle on the neck that is not nice and smooth like the rest of the frame. Because of this I am considering taking the plate off and demanding that the powder coater coat the area underneath it to match the rest of the frame. Only problem is to do this I would have to drill out the rivets which would leave holes. Is it possible to get a replacement VIN plate from the DMV? That way I could attach the new VIN plate in the same spot using the holes I made. What would you guys suggest? should I just leave it as is because probably no one besides me will notice the crinkly coat on the plate? Is it even possible to powder coat one little spot to match the rest of the frame? Any and all suggestions are welcome. I'm really pissed about this because I paid $360 to get it the color I wanted and have a UV resistant clear coat on top. I can't believe after waiting 7 weeks to get it back he coated 2 areas he told me he would not.

-Will
 
6

69ST

Well-Known Member
A reproduction VIN tag may be your best bet. Only problem might be that it's an ST90...not exactly lots of them extant, so not much demand for model-specific VIN tags. There's an ebay seller that does them for a number of models and will engrave the VIN & D.O.M. The caveats: he may not be able to supply you with an ST90 tag and, if he can, he's located in the EU (Switzerland, as I recall). You'll have a tough time finding a US vendor willing to sell you a ready-to-use VIN. At best, you might be able to find a blank repop, then have it stamped, or engraved.

The only other alternative would be an overlay decal...and there is an ebay seller who offers them. Again, not sure if he has them in ST90 flavor. To use one, you'd have to remove the powdercoating. No idea how you'd go about doing that, without destroying the VIN tag. That's one of the reasons why I wouldn't use PC on antyhing more fragile than a steel rim. As for removing the drive screws, center punch them then use a tiny bit to remove the heads only. The shanks can either be pulled out of the frame, or pushed into the steering head tube. New, OEM, drive screws are available from dratv.
 
motodevo

motodevo

Active Member
If the tags toast, you could rip it off first, that will give you a small space between the rivet head and the frame to get the edge of some small diagonal cutters (sidecutters) under the head to yank them out or put the edge of a sharp chisel in the gap and shear off the rivet head then either punch the remaining pin into the headstock or drill out what remains. Even if you mess it up a little it won't be seen under a new/replacement plate.
Rivets can be bought from honda for a few bucks a piece
Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/182707316431
Im guessing all your bearing races are full of powder too, dont forget to sort that and run a tap through all the rivnuts on the frame. If hes gunna repowder the tag area, pull off that top trim, it only needs a flat blade under the tank end to lever it up gently.
 
Last edited:
S

Shamrockwill

Member
Are those CT70 tags the same size as an ST90 tag? I asked the seller if he could make me an ST90 one and he said no because he didn't know what size the ST90 ones are. It looks about the same size but My ST90 one said: GVWR 415 lbs, GAWR F 155 lbs R 210 lbs at the bottom. I'd like to go that route but I also do not know the Date Of Manufacture because the only before pic I have of the tag/plate doesn't show it. below is that pic as well as a shot of what I am dealing with now. I tried to run a VIN check online but all the websites I found don't do them for pre-1981 vehicles. Anyone know how to get a VIN check? On the bright side the tag/plate appears to be held in with screw nails not rivets.
45494-aaf82a55d02b019b84f66dda2c84e667.jpg

45495-e833273341daf1e0a0c343858cbc7241.jpg
 

Attachments

  • 20170603_171530.jpg
    20170603_171530.jpg
    99.7 KB · Views: 193
  • 20170905_201614.jpg
    20170905_201614.jpg
    156.1 KB · Views: 170
Last edited:
S

Shamrockwill

Member
He definitely doesn't know anything about powder coating motorcycle frames, and I will not be using him again for anything after this experience of him coating places he was told not to. I really wish I would have inspected the frame when I picked it up and demanded a discount for his mistakes.
 
motodevo

motodevo

Active Member
Atleast you know for next time, remove everything you don't want powdered. Trim, plates, bearing races, etc.

The st90 plate is the same size as a ct70 one. What's your frame number, should be able to narrow down a build date, they only yellow ones in 1974.
 
Last edited:
S

Shamrockwill

Member
The frame VIN is ST90-1106950. But the 74's weren't all made in the same month were they? Is it important to include the weights on the tag? Thanks for the correction racerx. I always appreciate learning the proper terms for things so I don't sound like a dummy in the future.
 
6

69ST

Well-Known Member
Just trying to make life a little easier for you, not a matter of sounding like a dummy. The only reason it's important to know the proper names of arcane parts like drive screws is that it allows you to source them. That would be a nightmare if you didn't know what to type into a "search" box.
 
M

mikesminitrail

New Member
If you take a body chisel and slide it underneath the VIN tag and cut the two drive pins off you can then take a thin putty knife and slide it underneath the VIN tag and it will come off the frame once you have it off the frame you can soak it in a lacquer thinner and the powder paint will come off then you will have your original Vin tag. We have soaked hundreds of them in lacquer thinner to get the glue off of the backside and have never damaged one yet.
 
M

mikesminitrail

New Member
Forgot to mention that we don't just throw them in a jar of lacquer thinner we placed them in a shop rag and pour lacquer thinner over the top of the rag. It usually takes about 5 minutes to loosen the glue on the backside of the VIN tag but I'm sure it may take a few more minutes to get the powder coating off the front rubbing it with the rag will probably do the trick.
 
S

Shamrockwill

Member
Thanks for the tip mikesminitrail. If I were to go that route where would I get a new info sticker for the old tag? racerx that's very true. I hope you didn't think my thank you was an attempt at sarcasm. I meant it to be sincere and was only belittling myself a little with the dummy comment. I can only imagine what some of my questions must sound like to those of you who have 1000 times the experience as me. Anyone have any ideas on finding the date of manufacture, month and year?
 
kirrbby

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
I think I was the dumbest minibiker ever...not that long ago. There are no dumb questions on lilHonda.

I think mikesminitrail is telling you that you may be able to strip the powder from your original tag. So then you could read the info, and maybe even keep your tag.
 
6

69ST

Well-Known Member
No worries, I didn't take your comment as sarcasm aimed in this direction. As kirrbby said, there are no dumb questions and the only really dumb mistakes are the ones that are repeated...instead of being used to learn something. We all start from scratch.

Removing the adhesive backing from a VIN tag is easy enough. I clean them back to shiny metal in under 10 minutes, prep for a successful reinstallation, However, none have been heated to 400F in a curing oven; that, plus the PC itself, changes everything. Heat changes the black silkscreening into more of a dark chocolate hue. As for removing PC, it depends upon the type. I've yet to see any solvent, short of methylene chloride have any real effect...and even that isn't universally successful. Not sure what impact it might have on the VIN silkscreening. The typical PC removal process involves 850F+ to burn-off the coating (per manufacturer specs), followed by media blasting...a bad bet for sheetmetal, probably fatal for thick aluminum foil, like a VIN tag, imho. If you can chemically dissolve the cured powder, then a black "window" overlay would be the simplest fix. The relevant numbers are reverse-stamped.
 
scooter

scooter

Well-Known Member
I have an St90 at home and some CT70 tags off their frame. I'll do a compare of the tags for you. I usually center punch the head of the drive screw and drill the head off then I drive the remainder into the frame.
 
Top