Hk1 yellow fever

Tweakin

Active Member
Ahh shit! I wish you were looking for exhaust suggestions earlier, this fits well with a HK1 stock look. Takegawa d style stainless 300 dollar pipe. I have it and it is real quiet and FLOWS! No burned legs! Had to get it from Webikes japan though.

Thanks old CT but I was never looking for exhaust recommendations for this build, I knew I wanted this yosh as soon as I decided to do the 108. I wanted something that was different than all the "typical" pipes ran on these bikes.
I appreciate you looking out though!
 

cjpayne

Well-Known Member
Ahh shit! I wish you were looking for exhaust suggestions earlier, this fits well with a HK1 stock look. Takegawa d style stainless 300 dollar pipe. I have it and it is real quiet and FLOWS! No burned legs! Had to get it from Webikes japan though.

I think that's a decent looking pipe. I would definitely black out the back sections.
 

Tweakin

Active Member
The HK1 Stroker build is complete! I was able to take a few photos between rain storms today as well as get a brief video of the initial start up.

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Video of initial start up:
https://youtu.be/LJaPSnqc7BM
 

Tweakin

Active Member
I decided to give the Mikuni TM-MJN22 set up for the NSF100 a try on the 108. I ordered the carb from Webike and with 95 mains the bike fired right up and ran excellent. Smooth idle, excellent throttle response through the entire band and really good top end. Definite improvement over the 26mm kit Mikuni I was running. Plan is to do a few plug chops today to see if the jetting is even close, that should get me by until I can find time to take the bike to dyno.

Anyone else who has ever ran one of these have any tuning advise?

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Tweakin

Active Member
Here is a look at my plug with the new carb and its current jetting. It was as close to a plug chop as I could get in my neighborhood. High speed but it did idle for a tiny bit afterwards. I am color blind so putting it up for your you guys to help me read.
The bike runs great but want to make sure I am not too lean. I was thinking I might want to jump it up one jet size.

Thanks in advance!

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69ST

Well-Known Member
Only one reason I'd try going richer...to find the absolute limit. Short of an EGA, fitted with a wideband O2 sensor, that's the only way to know when you've reached 12.2-12.5:1 A:F ratio...where these little motors typically go into rich misfire. I've never worked with this, specific, carb so I can only make educated guesses, at this time. That said, if the atomization quality and fuel metering are as refined as Yoshimura claims in their catalog verbiage, Engrish transration (Japanese doesn't translate well, directly, into English) then I suspect that you may be able to optimize the jetting/tuning, rather than going rich at idle & WOT settings to cover transient lean spots.

From the look of that plug, you may be able to go slightly leaner. If it's running well already, then I'd want to do some plug reads after mid-to-high-speed cruising...since that's where you'll likely spend most of your saddle time. Considering seasonal temperature and fuel variations, staying on the rich side..in high ambient air temps...is good survival strategy. When temps drop and you maybe catch a tankful of fuel with more corn syrup than most, it'll run leaner and you'll have some safety margin.
 

lukelaw1

Active Member
This is slightly off the current topic of plug readings, but I have a rookie question.

Tweakin I see you did end up going with an oil cooler. Could a person run a cooler spark plug range to help with overheating?
 

69ST

Well-Known Member
This is slightly off the current topic of plug readings, but I have a rookie question.

Tweakin I see you did end up going with an oil cooler. Could a person run a cooler spark plug range to help with overheating?

Sparkplug heat range has absolutely nothing to do with oil temperature. It's simply a matter of how quickly the plug dissipates heat from its center. Hotter plugs have longer center electrodes & insulators; the longer path stays hotter longer. The key is matching the spark plug's cooling rate to the engine's heat generation rate, inside the combustion chamber. Too "cold" and the plug will foul, even with optimal carburetion. Too "hot", and the plug itself will overheat...resulting in pre-ignition or/and melted electrodes. Operation also has an effect. Extended high-speed running oftentimes requires dropping-down one heat range, extended low-speed operation stepping-up one heat range.

As for engine & oil overheating, a number of factors...air:fuel ratio, frictional heating (as during break-in), modifications and operation, even ambient air temp, come into play. With a heavily-modified engine, as we're discussing here, it boils down (no pun intended) to some basic math. Doubling, or tripling, horsepower output increases the amount of fuel burned and heat produced by the same amount; internal combustion engines are ~28% efficient...most of the fuel used ends up as waste heat. The cooling system, consists of finned surface area, which remains unchanged and oil flow. Increasing oil flow volume helps quite a bit, at least in terms of controlling peak head temps. But, the only practical means of increasing finned area, which radiates substantially more heat effectively, is adding an oil cooler...if oil temps are too high.
 

Tweakin

Active Member
Thanks racerx for both responses, you are much more detailed in your responses than I am.

I think I will try to do one more "proper" plug chop with the current jetting before making any changes. The bike runs great with he current set up, just want to get it close so I won't cause any harm to the engine while I wait for time in my schedule to get it on the dyno.

One I thing I did notice with this engine build, is it is too strong for the stock trailwings and refurbished stock rims. At speed the bike is a bit all over the place. I think I am going to put on some Pirellis and possible 12 inch aluminum rims. What do you guys see people running for high end rear suspension? Links?
Thank you
 
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69ST

Well-Known Member
Not quite sure what you mean by "too strong for the stock Trailwings". If your bike is "all over the place", at speed, I kinda doubt that it's completely due to the `Wings. True, they're not as sure-footed as street tires, especially for the first few hundred miles, or so. Tracking does improve with wear. If you want dualsport capability, they're as good as it gets. After 21,000 miles of use, I've relegated them to a second set of rims...that will probably never see the bike again. However, my reasons are probably different from what you expect.

If you're accustomed to fullsize bikes, a modded CT70 is going to feel comparatively twitchy, for a time. Low mass, small-diameter tires, and short wheelbase have that effect...inherently. For your own peace of mind, I suggest figuring out how much of the twitchiness is actual, mechanical, instability and how much is personal perception. Any mechanical issues (loose chassis/suspension pieces, swingarm bushings, etc) should be corrected, obviously. That K1 fork should be pretty good, if everything is tight and you've done the oil-tuning thing. A loose axle, or headset bearings, however, can make it feel like rubber. If anything has excessive, unwanted, lateral movement, it's more likely to be swingarm-related.

IMHO, these bikes feel like they're moving along at ~1.5-2.0x actual speed, compared to anything full-sized. That's part of the fun. Mastering a new (sub)set of riding skills, specific to these diminutive machines, takes time. It took me a few thousand miles to really settle-in...to the point where riding one of these little bikes feels like second nature. (Of course, I also took a 20-year hiatus from motorcycles, which didn't help.) I doubt that this is unique to me.

At this late date, I don't find the venerable `Wings all that bad, really. Their light weight is actually quite a benefit. Fastest "Banzai blast" on my daily rider was on them...67mph and stability was not an issue. They don't even corner badly. Ironically, that is the primary reason for switching to road tires. My machine fairly begs for a good workout, including peg-scraping lean angles, through the twisties, and that's where knobbies are fatally flawed. Reach that last row of tread blocks and the bike would washout faster than a rider could think the words "oh shit!" The other two reasons are noise and short tread life. That buzzing noise sometimes gets on my last nerve. And, by 3500 miles, the rear tread has worn enough that it noticeably affects gearing.

If you want to retain the stock profile of the bike, you're limited to ~18" tall tires. The absolute limit, with stock suspension pieces, is ~19.5" and you'll lose some chain adjustment range at that. IMO, they look a little clownishly oversized but, to each his own. Any taller and you'll risk disaster should the suspension ever bottom-out. You'll also need to address gearing, if you change tire circumference more than 2-3%; speedo input, and with it the odometer accuracy, are also affected. Personally, I'm not a fan of 12-inchers on these bikes. The shorter sidewalls will stiffen an already firm ride quality and offer less rim protection. Again, it's your call to make. Don't know about available sizes in 12" flavor. Most of the 10" offerings are metric, few are sold as 4.00-10. Bridgestone used to offer ML16/ML17 as a front & rear, directional tread, combo...in 4.00-10. The front was unceremoniously deleted at the end of 2015 (those bastages:yell:) Not sure if the rear can be used for both. Actual size of a Trailwing is 105/90-10. That's an important concept...the difference between nominal (shown on the sidewall) and actual size; it varies wildly, with all manufacturers. You've been warned. Pirelli, Metzeller, Avon, Continental, Cheng Shin and others offer a number of 10-inch road tires. The best of them, bar none, is the Heidenau K61. Check the current catalog, available sizes change from time-to-time. Their 110/80-10 was the closest to OEM size...both section width and height.
 
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