I couldn't pass this one up

[Tripod]

Picked up a beat CF70 Chaly the other day for 320$. I told myself no more mod bikes just clean survivors. Well, that didn't last long.

I think it's a 74 CF70 general export. Hard to tell with the crappy paint. Originally white. The gray paint flakes off with garden hose level pressure. Vin is 22xxxxxx. Engine is one number higher so it's original. Since the speedo is in kph it didn't go to England. I didn't get any history on it . It looks like a three speed but I didn't go through the gears. Has about 2200 km on it.

Had to put in new points to get spark. Carb is weird. It doesn't have a slow jet. Just a main jet.

I'm unsure of where to take it, but it won't be stock. It needs alot. I think I'm going to have to pick and pull from various models.

My pictures are crap, I'll probably post more later.

 

[69ST]

A lot of CT70 parts interchange...wheels, front end, speedo, headlight, fenders etc. Don't see many Chalys stateside. This one probably has the typical ST70 import history...purchased during the Vietnam war era by a US serviceman, imported courtesy of Uncle Sam when the tour of duty ended.

Nice find, congrats

 

[Tripod]

Has a 3spd semi auto. Has a Nippon Denso flywheel with one weight centrifugal advance.

Here's a few more pictures.

 

[69ST]

It's a JDM Chaly, as expected. AFAIK, the CF70 was popular is SE Asia...Japan, Thailand, Malaysia, etc and that's about it. A few sold in the UK & some EU countries but they're fairly uncommon there. In the US...K3-`79 headlight ears are more common, by far. The biggest source of Chaly parts is Thailand and there are several Thai sellers on eBay.

I've seen photos of customized Chalys. A carb & intake centered & standing proud of the frame has a certain gearhead coolness factor. These frames also have a huge advantage with the fuel tank located well above carb height. That gives better gravity assist on the fuel flow, a.k.a. "head pressure". And, it's possible to fit a decent capacity tank inside the frame with relative ease, compared to a CT70 frame. If the tank is missing, you face two choices: importing one or custom-fabbing your own.

IMO, this bike is worth turning into something really nice. They have quite the cult following, thus demand is strong despite this being a relatively unknown model is North
America. You'll likely never see another one, firsthand, giving you a bike that is uniquely your own...with your personal "stamp" all over it.

FYI, some Chalys had a 3-spoke version of the CT70 wheel & hub assembly. They're unique to the CF70.

 

[Tripod]

There are a few Thai sellers on Ebay, but im not sure which one to go with.

 

[Tripod]

Tore the motor down today. She was a real sweetheart. I only had to drill out on stator screw. The rest didn't put up a fight. Engine looks to be in great shape. No sludge, spinner is clean with only minor silver sludge deposits on outer area of spinner.

I did notice a few things that seemed odd for a 1974 motor. It has needle bearings for the transmission shafts. Not sure when the USA got these, it's in the gb4 cases though right?

Kickstarter has the side mesh gear teeth. This would be great if I was going to build a big motor.

Crank appears to have the same taper as a 4 SPD?

Also a pic of the inside of the flywheel.

I can't find a single parts diagram that lists these needle bearings. Can I just use ones from a xr/crf 70? Also, how should I remove them and install them??

 

[kirrbby]

I'm not sure when the change to needle bearings came, but I think it might have been pretty early.
USUALLY, but not always, those bearings will fall out if you heat the engine case...with a heat gun, or in a oven. Gotta get it pretty hot. Might have to help it a little by kinda dropping, or slamming the case down onto a piece of plywood, etc. If it won't come out that way, I would recommend getting a proper bearing puller, rather than taking drastic measures.
When I've replaced them, I've bought the set from dratv. But I'd bet the crf bearings ARE the ones you need. I've reused them at least once...I don't think they're prone to be worn, unless you see that they're scored.

I logged the sizes of those bearings in one of my old threads. If you need to know, I could probably find it. Or...dratv might list the dimensions on their site.

 

[69ST]

I really think that these are not the original 1974 cases. Anything is possible but GB4 cases are no older than 1980s vintage, AFAIK. It doesn't really matter, cases are interchangeable. You've got the 12v style kickstart shaft assembly and needle bearings...both of which are superior to the earlier versions. The dratv needle bearings should be the right ones, there's only one PN for each of these, regardless of model. Figure out if these bearings need to come out in the first place; they probably don't.

This is the time I've seen that centrifugal advance mechanism, too. It's an orphan, at least in the west; that said, if it's in good condition, why worry about it? The one question I have is which crank type you have; I'd want to know that before ordering parts...taper (3sp/6v, 4sp/6v, 3sp/12v) and more importantly rod length. There are ways of working with any of those, or some (at present) unknown hybrid.

Can't tell if that's an `82 CT70 type head or a 12v. Looks like hardened valve seat inserts, unlike the overwhelming majority of 6v heads. What type of cam bearings does it have?

I get the feeling that a previous owner installed a 12v engine, but retained the original crankshaft & alternator assembly. That wouldn't be a bad thing. And, I agree with you...this thing looks to be in good shape.

 

[kirrbby]

Pretty sure the needle bearings are 2 different parts...13.5 & 14mm ID's

 

[kirrbby]

ATC/TRX 70s went to GB4 cases with the switch to TRX...1986/7

 

[Tripod]

I can source the bearings from CMSNL. They arent listed on the parts fiche for the CF70. However, on the Z50J1, they are. In fact, the whole motor assembly is the same including the kickstarter. Kirrby is right, 13.5 and 14. I'd like to not take them out at all, but im going to have the cases vapor blasted. Im thinking heat, or use a blind bearing puller? If i can get them out with heat i'd like to reuse since they are about $20 each.

As for the case, its stamped CF70-220xxxx. It doesnt appear to be taken apart ever based on the gaskets. The piston is an ART 087 piston, just like on a CT, but I have no way of knowing if its a long rod motor.

 

[69ST]

It's been a lot of years now, since the files were vaporized, the earliest reference to the GB4 changeover is 1982. This fits in with other...known...changes, including the ST70-to-AB23 and CT70-to-JH2 nomenclature, both within a year of that. In fact, the 1982 CT70 engine has some weird parts...including a hybrid crankshaft (breaker point ignition + long rod). The Innova series engine, as used in the MSX125/Grom went into production almost 2 decades ago and the EFI version hit the market circa 2006...just not here, until a decade later.

All of that having been said, 1974 is waaaay too early for GB4 lower end pieces, IMO. It's really not an issue in terms of value. Purist "correctness" isn't typically an issue unless a collector machine was produced in large numbers. Again, IMO..and based on what I've seen over the past 15-20 years, the CF70 is enough of a "unicorn" in North America, that a clean, nicely-executed, custom example will have plenty of potential buyers, if one is looking to sell.

 

[Gary]

I'm sorry nothing against the bike but every time I look at this thread it reminds me of the fat chicks and scooters joke

 

[allenp42]

Crank appears to have the same taper as a 4 SPD?

I can confirm that the taper is the same as an H. I also have ND flywheel and stator that I acquired in a parts lot. It looks to be the same as the one you have.

 

[69ST]

I'm sorry nothing against the bike but every time I look at this thread it reminds me of the fat chicks and scooters joke

I knew someone who felt that way about the Chaly, circa 2000. He basically transplanted everything onto a Dax frame and dubbed the project "the Chax". He also ended up regretting the decision, the frame was tossed...before he learned what a dedicated cult following these bikes have.

There are other methods that can be used to clean the cases, other than wet blasting with hard media. Soft media or chemical cleaning does a great job. And, if these castings are as clean as the pix hint at, you can probably scrub them yourself. Once installed, the cases can't be seen in a CF70 frame...and there's absolutely no need to wet blast the inside surfaces of the crankcase halves. Maybe just have the head casting wet blasted and DIY the rest. The clutch & flywheel covers get painted, the points inspection & round cam covers get polished.

 

[Gary]

Not a problem here Bob nothing gets tossed unless it's totally worthless.....

 

[Tripod]

Parts, parts, and more parts. Some from Japan, Thailand, and Europe. I received the wire harness today. Since my bike had basically everything at both ends cut off, im working through what's what. I had planned on using a ct70 k3 switch and harness since i wanted to have turn signals on this bike. I ended up ordering a Chaly wire harness so everything is the right length and in the right spot.

Question for the electrical guru's out there. What is the purpose of the resistor in this wiring diagram, 4 ohm10W? It not on any U.S spec bikes. Do I need it? How does it interact with the key switch?

 

[Tripod]

Stripped off the old patchy paint and sprayed some primer. Paint stripper sure aren't very effective on some of this paint. It seems like the only time I can get paint to come off easily is when I don't want it to.

The original primer on this thing was thick. It was almost like sanding body filler.

Got the side covers done too.

 

[allenp42]

From what I can tell, it adds a little load to the yellow winding (ac side, lighting) when the key switch is in position I (lights off). Most likely, this is to keep from overcharging the battery on long extended runs during day light riding. I have seen this on a few other models as well (UK, Belgium, Japan).

If you run with the lights on all the time, for sure it is not needed. I wonder if the US bikes use the same stator?

It's an easy add item, but you can probably make a few checks one you get it up and going to know if it's needed or not.

 

[Gary]

Much like toilets flushing,light bulbs being dirt cheap,health care being affordable once the government gets it's hands on something they manage to screw it up. Takes a bit but it will get worked out. They had to take the methylene chloride out because of it being a carcinogen. Surprised they used a primer- no bikes I have had used it