WAR and Money

[Darthvader]

If the country is just about broke why are they talking about an escalation in the Middle East and yet another war in Darfur?

Not to mention neither war can ever be won.

These people are all crazy...every one of then needs to be voted out.

That's the change we need.

 

[hornetgod]

Sounds like you need to run for office.

 

[Darthvader]

No what I need to do is to convince people that the system is broken and we the people caused it and therefore need to fix it. In office you have no voice. As citizens on a collective basis we have the voice.

Vote each and every incumbent out. They won't give us term limits so wee need to take it into our own hands.

Problem is people don't care until they get personally get screwed.So things will get worse and people wii sit back an whine.Whoa is me please save Uncle Sam.

Sounds like you need to run for office.

 

[hondaman]

Its just history repeating itself once again. What came about after the Great Depression?
World War II. Its all just a chess game on a world wide scale. Those with power and control decide what is best for them. They have decided another world war is just what is needed to boost their coffers. If millions die so be it! This world is controlled by a few ruthless and souless people who don't give a damn about the common man. Watch for increasing escalations in the middle east. Watch the stock market increase in gains for a short while and then come crashing down once again. Watch history repeat itself!
Too many people not enough jobs! World War III is just around the corner.

 

[Darthvader]

Let's take an unprecedented and peaceful approach.

Vote every single sitting politician on office out. Stop the cycle.

 

[steampick]

And then it's "meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

I think the problem we have in the West is that our citizen's are about as uninformed as they could possibly be, and a democracy only works if the citizenry is informed, otherwise it just turns into the informed few ruling the ignorant many. Apathy is always going to be a problem, but when you've got citizens convinced the only thing they can do is consume more goods, and the media internalizing the values of their coporate sponsors, you've got problems.

 

[69ST]

Some very valid points made so far. I tend to agree with the pholisophy that history "is the tale of heartless over the mindless"...filtered through the half-truths & lies of whichever side is presenting it. Our society has been dumbed-down & pacified with disposable shiny trinkets. I used to assign "blame" on "the people". After all, you're responsible for your own efforts and should learn to question EVERYTHING. Individually, people can be brilliant, yet somehow, "the people" lend creedence to the axiom "the masses are asses". However, if you consider that even at its best, K-12 public education was more about turning out good, productive, drones to get the corporate wheels turning again after decades of decline, the current situation of an ignorant populace at large makes sense. It's been orchestrated and good propaganda is an essential part of that process. An informed & engaged citizenry is very tough to control and control is the bottom line in any chess game. The blame game is counter-productive. A divided country is easy to control and we already have the Rupert Murdoch empire to fan those flames. Time has long since passed to stop fighting each other and direct such efforts toward the real enemy, megalithic international conglomerates. Just what do banks and insurance companies actually produce?

Yes, throw them all out of office. Also realize that the "American Century" was really an image based on an anomaly, namely 25 years of unprecendented achievment (ending circa 1968)...made possible by an entire generation deprived, a world war, the "rich" getting a whole lot less so (and less powerful in the process) followed by a power vacuum. But, no one talks about the "great compression" that allowed a large middle class to emerge. Neither does anyone really discuss the current downward arc which began 40 years ago. Since 1970, we've had as presidents: 6 perjurers, 2 war criminals and three who had "mandates" with less than 50% of a plurality of votes (couldn't even garner a majority). One wasn't even elected and he went on to pardon a criminal before said individual was formally charged with a specific crime. WTF?! So, while we vote them all out of office, let's also get rid of both "major" political parties, one is malignant, the other useless, 2 very poor choices that represent only their corporate pimps. Let's also get rid of the things that allow undue influence and prevent access for the people that these mountebanks claim to represent: unregulated lobbyists and gigabuck political slush funds. Love your country (and I don't mean in a jingoisitic, banner-waving way) hate your criminal government:fuck:

In theory, at least, the process can work. Just a matter of motivation, personal engagement, and time. :flypig:

 

[topr]

I agree Bob...your choice is to have one side steal it all, or the other side squander it all.

 

[steampick]

If you consider that even at its best, K-12 public education was more about turning out good, productive, drones to get the corporate wheels turning again after decades of decline, the current situation of an ignorant populace at large makes sense

Coporate drones aren't supposed to learn History, Geography, English Literature, Music, Art, Civis, Math, Science et al, which is what the heart of curriculum in schools has been since forever. It has as its foundation the liberal arts, and that's a good thing. Have these courses been implemented in too strict a hierarchical fashion, and evaluated too rigidly? Probably, but that doesn't cause an ignorant population. School only takes up 6 hours of the day. It's what that population is doing with the rest of their day where the problem lies. And that's where the shiny objects come into play.

 

[69ST]

If you consider that even at its best, K-12 public education was more about turning out good, productive, drones to get the corporate wheels turning again after decades of decline, the current situation of an ignorant populace at large makes sense

Coporate drones aren't supposed to learn History, Geography, English Literature, Music, Art, Civis, Math, Science et al, which is what the heart of curriculum in schools has been since forever. It has as its foundation the liberal arts, and that's a good thing. Have these courses been implemented in too strict a hierarchical fashion, and evaluated too rigidly? Probably, but that doesn't cause an ignorant population. School only takes up 6 hours of the day. It's what that population is doing with the rest of their day where the problem lies. And that's where the shiny objects come into play.

On the surface, that is correct. However, between highly questionable practices such as multiple choice, "standardized achievment" testing, grading "on the curve" and "social promotion", public education in this country has been reduced to corporate kool aid.

A 6-hour school day is long enough, especially for younger students. If anything, midday recess should be restored. Kids are far too sedentary. Mind and body both need balance to function optimally and one can't survive without the other. History and geography have traditionally been weak spots of grade school students. In the 60s, Johnny couldn't find Iran on a globe. Now, Jacob can't find his own ass with both hands, halogen lighting and a 3-way mirror. The resulting lack of perspective is dangerous. As for English literature, students must first be literate. The number of post-grads out there with a sub-9th grade level mastery of the English language is appalling. Thought and articulation go hand-in-hand. Music and art programs have largely been eliminated for "cost savings", a major reason why contemporary pop music is mostly digital sound effects and "sampling". American culture is now found mainly in plastic containers with a "Dannon" label, unless that's been outsourced to China, too. There are reasons why art, music & literature were dubbed the humanities; sadly, those reasons have largely faded from public consciousness. You have to be mindful that "liberal" is now an obscene word in the lexicon. Nevermind that those in whom the desired Pavlovian response is elicited can't even define it. Things improve at the college level, for those with the ability, drive and the money. Traditionally, that's been just under 25% of the population...when the cost of a 4-year degree was roughly equivalent of an average new car. It's now the price of a 2700 square-foot house, at 2001 levels, and skyrocketing.

Now, take the 5 best years of the past 30, 1995-2000. Only 1 in 5 college degrees would qualify the recipient for a job paying enough to join the middle class. Now, 1 in 5 are finding a job, period. Of course, there's an equal number who "succeed" without a 4 year degree, bringing the total to 10% or roughly the same percentage of the US population that's been able to keep up with American Dream of earlier generations. For everyone else, real wages are down 30% since the millenium (and sinking like a rock) while college tuition continues to outstrip every worst-case estimate increase (projected to average $340,000 by 2020, at an annual growth of 6%). It's a slow-motion train wreck.

 

[steampick]

On the surface, that is correct. However, between highly questionable practices such as multiple choice, "standardized achievment" testing, grading "on the curve" and "social promotion", public education in this country has been reduced to corporate kool aid.

Public education is really not as prescriptive as you make it sound. Yes, standardized testing is an ass-covering, pr move, but grading on the curve, or the use of multiple choice questions is, for all intents and purposes, still left up to the individual teacher(s). I think the coporate mentality seeped into the consciousness of the population first, and the schools are just the place where we start to see the troubling signs of the real shaping agents of our societies: corporations.

If nothing or nobody in society values, say, reading, then it doesn't matter if you're the best teacher in the world, you will not have success trying to develop language acquisition skills.

Kids are far too sedentary. Mind and body both need balance to function optimally and one can't survive without the other.

I agree, they are, but not because of a lack of recess (we still have that here from K-Gr. 8) or gym class. Have you seen these kids at home? They are total media-addled couch potatoes who think Nintendo Wii is pushing the limits of exercise.

The number of post-grads out there with a sub-9th grade level mastery of the English language is appalling.

And getting worse, but not because of standardized tests or dubious evaluation practices. They simply do not value reading, and especially any kind of reading that doesn't have a direct impact on their peer group. Now, say what you want about schools, but they have consistently emphasized the value of reading (almost to the point of overkill), so focusing overly on them is a bit like focusing one's attention on inflating a tire slightly low on air while steam pours out of their rad.

 

[69ST]

Public education is really not as prescriptive as you make it sound. Yes, standardized testing is an ass-covering, pr move, but grading on the curve, or the use of multiple choice questions is, for all intents and purposes, still left up to the individual teacher(s). I think the coporate mentality seeped into the consciousness of the population first, and the schools are just the place where we start to see the troubling signs of the real shaping agents of our societies: corporations.

More perfunctory than prescriptive. I'm not saying that there aren't some first rate educators out there. But, the situation may be somewhat different on this side of the US/Canada border. I don't see mastery of the basics and the younger the generation, the worse it seems to be. If social promotion is a foreign concept to you, how about high school GPAs above 4.0? Terms such as "grade inflation" and "teaching the <standardized> test" come to mind. What numerical digit is a Big Mac? The cash registers at McCholesterol don't have numbers on the keys, just pictures for the monkies to ID. And when's the last time you ran acrosss someone younger than 40 that could actually count change? Vocabulary and mastery of English are an essential foundation of higher thought, not to mention articulation. Where else would these be taught? In grade school, failing English meant repeating the grade, no longer. In college, we had to pass an "English proficiency" exam to get a diploma.

I recently listened to a math teacher incorrectly explain degrees of arc to a 6th grade class, pitiful. And, at the same school, the newest subject has been "lockdown" drills...allegedly in complaince with the "patriot act". It's shocking how few parents even question such blatantly gestapo tactics and the details are like something out of Orwellian fiction.

The educational systems does, to a large degree, mirror a society, I agree. It also does more than that. Why basics and basic standards are lower than they were a half-century ago should raise a red flag all by itself. Without the basics, a populace has about as much chance of successfully dealing with the challenges of a "vetted", "redacted" age where "rendition" no longer has anything to do with a music recital and everything is awash in tsunamis of long-chain noun string B.S. You'd better believe that the ones hiding behind all of this crap know exactly what they're doing...hiding in plain sight, going over a lot of (too many) heads, like 2 finance profs discussing credit default swaps in a room full of children. Expecting to make progress without the foundation of basic education, including communication skills, is tantamount to trying to build a high-rise office building on a drawing of a foundation. Have to wonder how many people can understand credit card "agreements" or their insurance policies...or how many could even read them with a 6th grade reading level. If the masses were capable of such amazing feats, the landscape would be very different. Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen.:31:

 

[a_smerek]

I disagree with the education comments

Education has become stronger than ever

The school system may be headed toward failure, but the internet is a big silver bullet that threatens institutions with power to deliver information that is not controlled

My dad told me to be a Christian, buy a GM and not jap scrap, and play hockey. I questioned him, and was told, you listen to your dad, you don't question a religion or you go to hell, you play hockey because you are Canadian, etc...

A hundred years ago these family legacies were passed down generation to generation.

Now access to outside information exists and is easy to get

I am able to get unbiased facts. I bought a japanese car because millions of reviews were available to me, not just what my dad said. I learned to respect other religions as borders break down with cross country communication. I know somebody in Iraq or Afghanistan just wants what is best for their own family, as much as I do for my family.

Information is out there, showing the corruption within all the major governments and institutions that control this world.

People are starting to ask questions. People are getting information they were not before. Us sharing these comments on a mini bike site in itself is an example of this. Without the internet I would have never made or read comments from others, or got my wiring on the 72 figured out.

Long gone are the days where bribed media are the only source of information. Bill Clinton stated the internet will cause communism to fail in China, once enough Chinese get the information they need, I believe it.

School systems aside, our children should be smarter than us, and more educated

They do not need to search out information in remote libraries and biased books the way we did

They have instant access to information, and more importantly information from multiple sources where one can make their own decision on what to believe without bias of family members, patriotism, religion, race etc...

 

[knucklebuster2]

education stronger

Ill have to agree theres alot more oportunity for information today but children are lazier also.Take a look at most of kids and even adults physical condition,do you remember so many huge people years ago,we used to get out more before there was cable,satellite tv and computersThere may be more knowledge today available but theres alot less commen sense and thinking to understand today

 

[JPct70]

wow this is alot to read :24:

 

[a_smerek]

Could not agree more, kids do nothing these days, because they don't have to

I blame parents, they fold. In the old days if you didn'nt load the wood stove you froze, and you chopped wood all summer or you would die when it ran out in the winter

That was motivation

I myself learned the value of hard work

When I was 16, I knew damn well I would have to buy my own car, my dad made that clear. He was not letting me trash his 20 year old $800 car. I worked slugging boxes in a warehouse job he got me, and I found out later, he had talked to the foreman and requested they give me the shittiest job possible.

That job helped me pay for school, and I studied hard knowing a lifetime of low pay hard work awaited me in that warehouse if I didn't get educated. The fact I gave thousands of dollars to a school at the expense of my sweat and back also motivated me to study hard, and I was #1 in my class. I found out later my grandparents left me $60k for school in inheritance, money I still have never seen. I probably would have drank it away and failed school in those days. I thank my parents for illegally taking that from me.

For a long time, I cursed my dad, I really believed he was a royal dick

Now I see what a good dad he was, showing me the harsh reality that life isnt rainbows and butterflies

Parents these days have become soft. School has done away with failing kids, and parents have done away with being strict and enforcing what they say

Life has not done away with winners and losers, and in most cases, the hard workers are the winners not losers

 

[JPct70]

Could not agree more, kids do nothing these days, because they don't have to

I blame parents, they fold. In the old days if you didn'nt load the wood stove you froze, and you chopped wood all summer or you would die when it ran out in the winter

That was motivation

I myself learned the value of hard work

When I was 16, I knew damn well I would have to buy my own car, my dad made that clear. He was not letting me trash his 20 year old $800 car. I worked slugging boxes in a warehouse job he got me, and I found out later, he had talked to the foreman and requested they give me the shittiest job possible.

That job helped me pay for school, and I studied hard knowing a lifetime of low pay hard work awaited me in that warehouse if I didn't get educated. The fact I gave thousands of dollars to a school at the expense of my sweat and back also motivated me to study hard, and I was #1 in my class. I found out later my grandparents left me $60k for school in inheritance, money I still have never seen. I probably would have drank it away and failed school in those days. I thank my parents for illegally taking that from me.

For a long time, I cursed my dad, I really believed he was a royal dick

Now I see what a good dad he was, showing me the harsh reality that life isnt rainbows and butterflies

Parents these days have become soft. School has done away with failing kids, and parents have done away with being strict and enforcing what they say

Life has not done away with winners and losers, and in most cases, the hard workers are the winners not losers

This is so true in many ways, sounds like you had great parenting

 

[steampick]

The school system may be headed toward failure, but the internet is a big silver bullet that threatens institutions with power to deliver information that is not controlled

The internet is a very powerful tool to gather facts and exercise opinions, but studies show that kids seldom use the internet for this. A great book on this subject is The Dumbest Generation, which argues that nature of internet breeds a kind of knowledge, and a kind of saavy, just not the kind that helps develop language acquisition skills. Long story short, the internet is about multi-tasking, while language acquisition requires one to focus on a single text.

Even on this webpage you're reading, there are multiple texts and pictures vying for your attention. Spend to long in this environment and you really do have a difficult time focusing on the much plainer text-driven books needed to develop language.

The other contention of the author is that because kids can spend so much time on peer-centred medias, they simply don't care about info that doesn't have anything to do with thier place amongst their peers. Essentially, they never have to really leave the comfort of their peer group (instant messaging at 2 am, for instance), and so don't, and simply don't value any knowledge that exists outside their peer group, which comprises about 98% of knowledge worth having.

And since the hippie surge of the late 1960s, schools have increasingly decided to legitimize the concerns of youth. Schools now bend over backwards to teach kids stuff that kids like, essentially limiting their knowledge and skills by not really challenging them. Instead of worshipping these youth ideals, the author claims we should keep in mind that youth aren't all-knowing or possessing of some special wisdom, but immature people who need to change, not be pandered to.

 

[a_smerek]

Well said

Very true on so many levels

 

[makotosun]

. . .The cash registers at McCholesterol don't have numbers on the keys, just pictures for the monkies to ID. And when's the last time you ran acrosss someone younger than 40 that could actually count change? . . .

My wife is the store manager at a very large Big Box Home Improvement store and employees are specifically taught NOT to figure out the change due - just do whatever the case register told them - EVEN IF THEY KNEW IT WAS INCORRECT.

I have also had fast food employees give me back the exact change I gave them to get - let's say, all quarters in change - because their mind could not understand what I was trying to do.

Things improve at the college level, for those with the ability, drive and the money. Traditionally, that's been just under 25% of the population...when the cost of a 4-year degree was roughly equivalent of an average new car. It's now the price of a 2700 square-foot house, at 2001 levels, and skyrocketing.

The interesting thing about this fact (which is pretty correct based on my own research) is that most schools seem to teach school with a bent on preparing kids to do well on things like the SAT or other college entrance exams, when we know that only about 30% of the HS population will start college, and only about 75% of those folks will graduate ( which is equal to RacerX's number).

How is the curriculum relevant to the 75% that will not end up being college graduates? Why is there not a viable program in most schools to provide a USEFUL education to those kids who will not likely be college bound? Real, usable vocational training?

I am concerned for my 7 year old as he progresses in the current system, so am terribly interested in this stuff. I was lucky enough to grow up in a family with a family business so I could actually learn work ethic, business skills, and other practical knowledge that is absent from most kid's upbringing. Hopefully I will be able to provide a similar experience for my own, as it is not likely to happen in the schools.