Zeee... Beee... Fifteeeee... Woot! Woot!
- Thread starter kirrbby
- Start date
kirrbby
Well-Known Member
It is clean. It's surprising considering it has almost 3000 miles. Must have been pretty nice miles. Good for me. This bike is rare, I plan to keep it whole but I also plan to ride it. Ill try to be nice too. I'd like to modify a original exhaust to run with a stroker motor. Or use as a pattern to build one to fit and look original. Stiffer front and rear shocks and leave it at that. I've seen some pretty sweet restomod ZB's but I'll have to resist, unless I were to come across a old beater to play with. 
I paid $1500, made a 7 hour round trip, and took a beating from the wife to get it. Worth it? YUP. Well worth it to me. I think I'm gonna love it long time.
I paid $1500, made a 7 hour round trip, and took a beating from the wife to get it. Worth it? YUP. Well worth it to me. I think I'm gonna love it long time.
Enginedoctor
Well-Known Member
it is sick (esp the aluminum frame). just needs a set of fairings to make it look like a cbr…
i heard (saw) you talking (typing) about a Tak earlier to stab in it. if it's wayyyy out of reach ($), it could be a good 117 or 124 base… it would still scream w/ a good head, but i guess then you'd have to toss some cake at a 'custom' exhaust and bigger carb.
anyways, nice bike.
i heard (saw) you talking (typing) about a Tak earlier to stab in it. if it's wayyyy out of reach ($), it could be a good 117 or 124 base… it would still scream w/ a good head, but i guess then you'd have to toss some cake at a 'custom' exhaust and bigger carb.
anyways, nice bike.
kirrbby
Well-Known Member
THX Doc. Yes, the Tak is VERY unlikely to ever make it into one of my bikes. But the 117 screamer might be just what the doctor orders. I'll have to choose a trans and clutch to use. I kinda like the semi auto TRX that's in my DAX. 4up semi auto keeps the motor lookin stock, but... semi auto with a race tune??? I have some time to think it over.
BTW the frame is actually steel. I thought it was aluminum too.
cjpayne
Well-Known Member
Enginedoctor
Well-Known Member
i'm not a real doctor, i only play one on the internet. i failed to find a pHd program in 'auto tech,' or even a bachelor's for that matter. i think for me to be a 'real' doctor of engines, i'd have to go back, do 2 more years of ME, then get the masters then pHd… Not today.
my prescription pad says 'post it' on it and it's bright yellow. i do fix sick engines and machines on the regulars though.
my prescription pad says 'post it' on it and it's bright yellow. i do fix sick engines and machines on the regulars though.
kirrbby
Well-Known Member
Black n shiny everywhere. I do think it's paint not powder, stock Honda I think. Looks almost too good to be original, but I think it is. I'll be looking a lot closer at this guy at some point. Right now it really needs to go. My son stopped by today and had a look at it. I'll be putting it... out of sight, out of mind. Too many projects going to stand around staring at this one.
kirrbby
Well-Known Member
So would you ever prescribe a high reving semi auto for a ZB50 street bike?? Torquer semi auto and give up a few MPH?? Add a clutch lever???
Enginedoctor
Well-Known Member
hm don't they make a billet bucket that will fit the centrifugal clutch? i mean if you're gonna PUSH it to 10+K, i don't see it as a problem.if you wanna maintain the stock look, that'd be the only way.
if you went up to 117 cc or even more, and kept a stock head, with a light port, it probably won't be a high rpm machine, even with a decent cam. you really need to open the head up to hit those high notes. at that point, you can still push 50+ on the stock basket.
let me look around.<update> TBparts has a billet basket for $128, and their HD clutch is another 85. not the cheapest solution but to run high rpms (which i'd do on a ZB)
oh another thing that comes to mind, is if the clutch is centrifugal, and you're pushing hella high rpm's, the shifting might be super stiff going up, because the weights are all the way out and you're running HD springs… it might not be too much of a problem but certainly not an issue with a hand clutch.
how stock do you want it to look, really. too bad these little motors have the clutch on the crankshaft not the trans main shaft… but that's where the centrifugal action comes in.
if you went up to 117 cc or even more, and kept a stock head, with a light port, it probably won't be a high rpm machine, even with a decent cam. you really need to open the head up to hit those high notes. at that point, you can still push 50+ on the stock basket.
let me look around.<update> TBparts has a billet basket for $128, and their HD clutch is another 85. not the cheapest solution but to run high rpms (which i'd do on a ZB)
oh another thing that comes to mind, is if the clutch is centrifugal, and you're pushing hella high rpm's, the shifting might be super stiff going up, because the weights are all the way out and you're running HD springs… it might not be too much of a problem but certainly not an issue with a hand clutch.
how stock do you want it to look, really. too bad these little motors have the clutch on the crankshaft not the trans main shaft… but that's where the centrifugal action comes in.
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kirrbby
Well-Known Member
I'll tell you what I'm thinkin. You know I'm a fan, and I'm wanting you to build me a motor. To do it right, you should pick the motor that you'd be proud of to put in this bike. I don't care what it looks like. Manual or auto clutch is good. Clutch on the crank or mainshaft is good. You pick it. I will most likely have the core parts and if not we'll buy them. I have motors, 12 volt lower ends from ZB50, Trx90 (05 with the mainshaft clutch), ct70, Z50. I have heads, ct70 6&12 volt, TRX90 which runs the newer type cams, CL70, SL70, TB race heads- new- used- and one that's new with some porting already done. I have a good 4up trans.
You pick the crank, clutch, carb and intake etc. I'll deal with the exhaust and oil cooler. We'll use stock ZB50 electrics. I scratch up the beans, you decide what to build. Ready to bolt in and start figuring the exhaust and such maybe by mid to late spring. Then you'll always have a bike to ride if you ever venture to Michigan. The ZB smells like a keeper.
You pick the crank, clutch, carb and intake etc. I'll deal with the exhaust and oil cooler. We'll use stock ZB50 electrics. I scratch up the beans, you decide what to build. Ready to bolt in and start figuring the exhaust and such maybe by mid to late spring. Then you'll always have a bike to ride if you ever venture to Michigan. The ZB smells like a keeper.
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Horsepower is the easy part. However, there's still the stock suspension, brakes and speedo to deal with. The speed claim in #8 strikes me as a permutation of the old $100- bill-on-the-dashboard fairy tale with classic musclecars. 1PS equals ~.95hp, as I recall. 2.6PS is closer to 2.5hp, nowhere near the low-end CT70 number of 4.2hp and with less torque. 4.7-5.0hp are the more commonly-seen power ratings. The 12v CT70s, all 3-speeds, are essentially the ZB50 motor...with 23cc added displacement, bigger ports & carb. IOW, the same motor with a factory bore-up kit, including carb & exhaust. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the ZB; it's arguably the best mini of all time. Faster than any CT70 3-speed, it ain't. 4-5X power is going to overbalance the stock rolling chassis.
You should be able to take your pick of really good rear shocks...including Ohlins finest...more easily and at less cost than a pair of equivalent shocks for a CT70. If you want to know how fast you're going, north of 45mph, there'll be an aftermarket speedo in your future. That's going to alter the bone-stock appearance. The fork legs can be re-valved & re-sprung, without changing the outwardly stock appearance...if you can find a competent shop that's willing to take you seriously. I'd be less than happy with the stock drum brakes on a 60mph+ setup. A disk brake front end would be a major change.
With all the engine changes you're talking about, what will remain of the original? If you're going to change-out the crank, tranny, cylinder, head and clutch it'd be easier to just source a clapped-out CRF/XR motor to build and mothball the original. A 117 tune requires case boring. With a non-stock engine, who'd care about an irreversible change like this? I believe that the ZB alternator is the same as the 12v CT70 and that could be "borrowed" for your 12v-based 117.
As for overall cost, "speed costs money, how fast do you wanna go?"...
You should be able to take your pick of really good rear shocks...including Ohlins finest...more easily and at less cost than a pair of equivalent shocks for a CT70. If you want to know how fast you're going, north of 45mph, there'll be an aftermarket speedo in your future. That's going to alter the bone-stock appearance. The fork legs can be re-valved & re-sprung, without changing the outwardly stock appearance...if you can find a competent shop that's willing to take you seriously. I'd be less than happy with the stock drum brakes on a 60mph+ setup. A disk brake front end would be a major change.
With all the engine changes you're talking about, what will remain of the original? If you're going to change-out the crank, tranny, cylinder, head and clutch it'd be easier to just source a clapped-out CRF/XR motor to build and mothball the original. A 117 tune requires case boring. With a non-stock engine, who'd care about an irreversible change like this? I believe that the ZB alternator is the same as the 12v CT70 and that could be "borrowed" for your 12v-based 117.
As for overall cost, "speed costs money, how fast do you wanna go?"...
kirrbby
Well-Known Member
Ha, racerx I love that last line. Can I use that for my new signature line? lolol
I addressed some in my last post. I will mothball the original parts whatever I do. No nonreversible mods. I'm game for the suspension stuff minus the disc brakes. Speedo, I'd hope to find something to fit the hole. As far as how fast, I really not a speed demon. I want to say even if the bike will do 90 I don't expect to be riding it around that fast. Top out at 70 cruise at 50-55?? That's super fast to me.
I'm really a purist with a little devil on my shoulder. A good boy with a bad boy alter ego. It's the same with other aspects of my life too. Love keeps me in check
I addressed some in my last post. I will mothball the original parts whatever I do. No nonreversible mods. I'm game for the suspension stuff minus the disc brakes. Speedo, I'd hope to find something to fit the hole. As far as how fast, I really not a speed demon. I want to say even if the bike will do 90 I don't expect to be riding it around that fast. Top out at 70 cruise at 50-55?? That's super fast to me.
I'm really a purist with a little devil on my shoulder. A good boy with a bad boy alter ego. It's the same with other aspects of my life too. Love keeps me in check
Enginedoctor
Well-Known Member
yeah, like you were thinking originally, a different motor to swap in and mothball the rest
i'm saying xr50/crf cases, a 4 up trans, clutch on the mainshaft (if possible w/ said trans) and then a nice 51s/54b kit to get things together. if you wanna keep the head on there until later, you can always upgrade, in bike, but it seems like you have a few in reserve.
hm new project. i know i owe ya one, so no biggie from this end. lets figure it out. pm me.
i'm saying xr50/crf cases, a 4 up trans, clutch on the mainshaft (if possible w/ said trans) and then a nice 51s/54b kit to get things together. if you wanna keep the head on there until later, you can always upgrade, in bike, but it seems like you have a few in reserve.
hm new project. i know i owe ya one, so no biggie from this end. lets figure it out. pm me.
hobojoe
Member
Nice bike! I had a chance to pick one up for about five hundred a year ago and i din't do it! Poor decision, i've been dreaming about it since. But my dreams have turned lately towards figuring out how to get one of those 125cc GROM engines under the frame of my CL70! I wonder if there is enough real estate in this ZB frame for a 2014 engine... Can't wait to see where this one goes!
Oh yeah, sourcing the new GROM engines without the included bike hasn't proven fruitful yet... anyone know where to get one???
Oh yeah, sourcing the new GROM engines without the included bike hasn't proven fruitful yet... anyone know where to get one???
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Getting a 50-5mph cruiser should be easy enough, only need 60-65mph top speed potential. 110cc ought to do the job, just by virtue of torque output. I've ridden K1-later CT70s capable of 65mph, with the stock fork and drum brakes. A 60mph+ panic stop involves an emphasis on panic. 70mph, imho, is beyond the fringe...as in "no, thanks!". I'd almost prefer a 54mm stroke, for the added torque. That said, 54x51 or 54x52 oversquares should be rev-happy. The larger bore unshrouds the valves, improving high-rpm breathing...good for peak power.
There aren't a lot of major grades to deal with in your neck of the woods. However, roads in this state are a disgrace. That's where suspension & related pieces can be severely tested. Above 65mph, even smooth roads won't seem so smooth anymore. Bottoming-out the suspension will be a concern, as will keeping both tires on the ground. Can't imagine any gearhead not wringing-out a bike, from time-to-time. A lot of roads have "minor" rough spots that are more than enough to bend a wheel above 50mph, ask me how I know.
FWIW, the ZB isn't for everyone. I've had multiple opportunities to purchase really clean, low-mileage, examples over the years. The deal-breaker, it's a lot smaller than it appears to be in photos. The ever-popular CT70 is about all the smaller I'm willing to deal with. YMMV
Fitting a Grom engine will be a gender reassignment...major surgery and irreversible. Of course, you're not going to find them very often, sans bike; they're less than two years on the market...and Honda has been
ing around with availability, to inflate MSRP. And many dealers have been more than willing to bite the corporate pillow.
Should be a good powerplant, in stock, or mildly tuned, form. Bone-stock, with the EFI, it should be decent turnkey motorvation. Frankly, I'm a little disappointed by what appear to be cost-reduced internals and some of rod/crank failures I've seen with big-displacement tunes. It's easily possible to take one to 180+. The EFI leaves a fair bit to be desired, too...a lot if you want to remap it for a big-displacement tune and/or a wild cam. Carburetor retrofit kits are available, for a reason.
There aren't a lot of major grades to deal with in your neck of the woods. However, roads in this state are a disgrace. That's where suspension & related pieces can be severely tested. Above 65mph, even smooth roads won't seem so smooth anymore. Bottoming-out the suspension will be a concern, as will keeping both tires on the ground. Can't imagine any gearhead not wringing-out a bike, from time-to-time. A lot of roads have "minor" rough spots that are more than enough to bend a wheel above 50mph, ask me how I know.
FWIW, the ZB isn't for everyone. I've had multiple opportunities to purchase really clean, low-mileage, examples over the years. The deal-breaker, it's a lot smaller than it appears to be in photos. The ever-popular CT70 is about all the smaller I'm willing to deal with. YMMV
Fitting a Grom engine will be a gender reassignment...major surgery and irreversible. Of course, you're not going to find them very often, sans bike; they're less than two years on the market...and Honda has been
ing around with availability, to inflate MSRP. And many dealers have been more than willing to bite the corporate pillow. Should be a good powerplant, in stock, or mildly tuned, form. Bone-stock, with the EFI, it should be decent turnkey motorvation. Frankly, I'm a little disappointed by what appear to be cost-reduced internals and some of rod/crank failures I've seen with big-displacement tunes. It's easily possible to take one to 180+. The EFI leaves a fair bit to be desired, too...a lot if you want to remap it for a big-displacement tune and/or a wild cam. Carburetor retrofit kits are available, for a reason.
hobojoe
Member
Good to know info. I saw a GROM at the Honda shop for the first time the other day and started dreaming about the "new era engine" and subsequent power under the frame of the better looking Vintage CL frame, it looked like they had the similar engine mounting patterns as the other SOHC engines Honda produces. Perhaps not...