1973 Handlebars
- Thread starter NEGGER
- Start date
motoman287
Member
I might have a pair. Can someone verify for me if they're K2 or K3? They both have mirror mounts, but only the RH (I believe) has a lever perch. Do I have what NEGGER is looking for?
motoman287
Member
Shoot. Sorry NEGGER, can't quite help you, I guess. Thanks for verifying, Bob.
kirrbby
Well-Known Member
I think I have a pair, or 2 to spare. Problem is, they are worth more to me than they are to everyone who needs some. I've offered them a few times, dig them out, pick the ones I can part with, post pics and info, name a price, then a week or so later I put them back. I have none that are great. None that are straight. None with beautiful chrome. A crappy set is still worth $100+ to me. A set like what NEGGER needs is good for at least $160+ to me. And I'm not sure I even have a set like what NEGGER needs. If I do, maybe I should keep them. Lol. I ALWAYS miss those parts after they're gone. I usually recommend folks call Gary Lewis, talk him out of a set of NOS, and pay his price.
IF he has them.
IF he has them.
cjpayne
Well-Known Member
If I've had it for years and I throw it away, two days later I need it.lol
Isn't that just the way of the world?!:45:
Personally, I'd have passed on that one $250 bar, too. Sourcing one bar, in the hopes of matching the other side, is a big gamble...even with NOS.
For this project, probably best to just source a new pair of repop bars, for less than buck-fifty delivered, add add mirror mounts and be done with it. There's room and it's not a difficult job. An M8 hex nut can be a virtually perfect press-fit, effectively mimicking the original threaded boss. In-situ, one would be hard-pressed to see the difference. Of course, a perfectionist could keep looking for a perfect, NOS, or at least straight, pair of vintage originals...that could take years to happen, if ever.
With handlebars, costs add-up quickly. They're not the easiest parts to metalfinish & polish, which is why chrome shops typically charge $250 & up to do a pair. And, unless you have a pair that is both straight and symmetrical R-to-L the odds are stacked against you. Now, that said, it is possible to tweak bent bars back to an acceptable level of R-to-L symmetry...however...more times than not, there will be a kink at the lowermost bend and that is the kiss of death for restoring bars. Removing all traces of damage, at that point, would add a stupid amount to the bottom line.
Replacing one side could work...if you get to compare them in the same handlebar clamp. Restoring a set only makes sense if the bars are in decent shape, symmetrical and rare enough to justify the cost.
A recent example is the set I had rechromed, in 2016, for my daily rider. There was nothing wrong with the chrome, i.e. not so much as single pit, or rust spot. They were straight as the day they were purchased, circa 2000. I needed to remove the welded lever perches to better fit a master cylinder assembly...and...I wanted the clutch lever to match. Removal took a lot of plating with it. It cost $250 to rechrome the pair and that's with me doing the metalfinishing & polishing, before taking them to the plater. There was very little left for the plating shop to do, in terms of prep. They came back looking better than new and I'm happy with the results. That said, there's close to $400 invested in that set of bars, including the original purchase price. Know what you're getting yourself into, from the get-go, and make an informed decision.
Don't want to hijack the thread or ask a Q that has been answered several times, but was there a change made in the K2 production cycle where the first batch did not have mirror mount and the later ones did....and it continued on into early K3 production? Just trying to educate myself with the changes. I read through a lot of 2010ish postings and it made it appear that K2 was a "mixed" year as well regarding mirror mounting hole.
I understand K3 better now after reading this post, but just want to confirm K2.
I understand K3 better now after reading this post, but just want to confirm K2.
AFAIK, K2 was the same as K0-K1, other than batch-to-batch variances in height & width. K3 was the first to get turn signals & mirrors, as those were required for the first time with the `74 model year. Honda was required to declare a model year, beginning in `75. The "K" designation wasn't confusing just to the feds. I believe that Honda eliminated the rear handbrake assembly to offset the cost of adding signals & mirrors...as soon as the last of the frames with the rear brake cable boss (and presumably attendant parts) were used-up in normal production. That just happened to occur midway through the K3 model run.
vintagehondatrailbikes
Member
Interesting note on the 1973 (K2) was that it was wired for turn signals (wire ends Front/Rear and L/R were there and even had the L/R switch on the bar even though the signals didn't actually arrive until the following year.
Hi Racerx
I have two sets of K2 bars both bent, you said you would just put on some aftermarket bars and drill mirror holes in the perches are the perches the same size as my K2 bars? I don't intend to put on mirrors because they didn't come with them but I could press in the little threaded things out of the old bars and it would least look correct. Thanks for the input.
I have two sets of K2 bars both bent, you said you would just put on some aftermarket bars and drill mirror holes in the perches are the perches the same size as my K2 bars? I don't intend to put on mirrors because they didn't come with them but I could press in the little threaded things out of the old bars and it would least look correct. Thanks for the input.
I'm unfamiliar with the K2 mirror mounts. Just haven't run across many K2s, they seem rare even compared to K3s. I added a mirror mount to the LH bar on my main rider by drilling the lever perch, grinding-down an M6 hex nut to the required height, then pressing it into place. It was an easy job. With a mirror installed, who could tell that this was a modification?
That said, if you can transplant your original mirror bosses it's probably worth doing. As a last check, I would suggest comparing your new bars, side-by-side, to your originals. They should be very close. If you notice something that's substantially different, then you may want to invest the bucks in having your originals restored. The actual cost of restoration will be at least double the price of a minty-new set and could be as much as 3-4X, depending upon the damage. Taken to a ridiculous extreme, almost any handlebar can be restored; it comes down to the cost vs perceived value question. The only one who can answer that is you.
If $150 and a couple hours of work buys a minty-new pair of bars that pass for OEM...
That said, if you can transplant your original mirror bosses it's probably worth doing. As a last check, I would suggest comparing your new bars, side-by-side, to your originals. They should be very close. If you notice something that's substantially different, then you may want to invest the bucks in having your originals restored. The actual cost of restoration will be at least double the price of a minty-new set and could be as much as 3-4X, depending upon the damage. Taken to a ridiculous extreme, almost any handlebar can be restored; it comes down to the cost vs perceived value question. The only one who can answer that is you.
If $150 and a couple hours of work buys a minty-new pair of bars that pass for OEM...
kirrbby
Well-Known Member
I looked thru my K2 owners manual, the only date is 1973. It shows the bars in a few pics. There are NO mirror mounts on the perches, but it does show the K3 controls installed L&R sides. The wire diagram shows a K3 harness with no signals installed...otherwise ready to add signals. I forgot to see if it shows a relay on the diagram...I'll check that.
I believe they changed over to K3...early style bars with mirror mounts mid run of K2 production. When the mirror mounts were added, the clocking of the perches changed significantly. K3 perches point farther forward than earlier bars, so they are more level to the ground/world. Mounting mirrors on the earlier bars/perches, causes the mirror stems to angle way forward and the mirrors end up not wide enough to see around yourself.
Maybe when Polson's CT70 book comes out it will have a good and accurate section on handlebars.
Here's hoping.
I believe they changed over to K3...early style bars with mirror mounts mid run of K2 production. When the mirror mounts were added, the clocking of the perches changed significantly. K3 perches point farther forward than earlier bars, so they are more level to the ground/world. Mounting mirrors on the earlier bars/perches, causes the mirror stems to angle way forward and the mirrors end up not wide enough to see around yourself.
Maybe when Polson's CT70 book comes out it will have a good and accurate section on handlebars.
Here's hoping.
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These mid-year running changes are poorly documented by Honda, for the most part. IMHO, add these to the list of enigmatic production details...alongside all of those K0 changes. I'm unsure how many versions of the foldable bars were made after the K1. The widest, by far, are the latest (1978)...with no perches, or throttle slot. Intuitively, it seems like those would include K4/`75 through `78 but, the Mighty Green K4s I've seen have had narrower bars than the `77s & `78s. See what I mean? FWIW, I agree with kirrbby, it's a reasonable, educated, guess. OTOH, an accurate history of handlebar variations...IDK if that is even possible, at this late date.
kirrbby
Well-Known Member
In the mail today, I got a nos K1 CT70 right side bar, to match a left that I've had for years. It got me goofin around with some of the different bars that I have here. Anyway, I think I may have found a K2 specific handlebar. It has the same bends as the K1 and K3 bars. It has the same angle on the perch as the K3 bars...but, no mirror mounting hole. I'm slowly getting a small collection of nos bars here. I'll do a thread sometime to show some or the different versions.
I'm still missing a lot, to have pairs of everything, BUT, I have enough to be able to show the major differences.
The CHP bars appear have a spread that's almost 2 inches less than the original K0 bars.
The K1 bars are probably 2 inches wider than K0's.
I'm still hoping Jeremy Polson's, rumored, CT70 book will have some good info about handlebars.
This is the suspected K2 left bar, paired with a NOS K3 right. (Crappy pic, I know.)
I'm still missing a lot, to have pairs of everything, BUT, I have enough to be able to show the major differences.
The CHP bars appear have a spread that's almost 2 inches less than the original K0 bars.
The K1 bars are probably 2 inches wider than K0's.
I'm still hoping Jeremy Polson's, rumored, CT70 book will have some good info about handlebars.
This is the suspected K2 left bar, paired with a NOS K3 right. (Crappy pic, I know.)
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Interesting reading material in this post, which has me thinking. I recently picked up a set of bars that were removed from a 77 CT, price was right so I snatched them up. I could tell the left bar was tweaked, but the pic did not show that the lever perch had been removed, or the opening for the bundle of wires is too small. 
Anyway, it appears that the first bend on the mod'd bar is the same as a NOS 77 bar I have, height is the same, but maybe the "top bend" sweeps the top/grip section more toward the rear of the bike? Can't draw any real conclusions on a "tweaked bar" so thought I would ask.
The mod'd left bar is not from a K0 because that first bend is noticeably different as compared. K0 seems to be a tight bend starting right at the mount. Whereas a 77 bar extends a bit before the bend. Put another way, the bend is not as "tight" on a 77 bar as compared to K0.
Just trying to determine which model years are the best candidates, if one exists, to remove the perch, and use on a 75 thru 78?
Anyway, it appears that the first bend on the mod'd bar is the same as a NOS 77 bar I have, height is the same, but maybe the "top bend" sweeps the top/grip section more toward the rear of the bike? Can't draw any real conclusions on a "tweaked bar" so thought I would ask.
The mod'd left bar is not from a K0 because that first bend is noticeably different as compared. K0 seems to be a tight bend starting right at the mount. Whereas a 77 bar extends a bit before the bend. Put another way, the bend is not as "tight" on a 77 bar as compared to K0.
Just trying to determine which model years are the best candidates, if one exists, to remove the perch, and use on a 75 thru 78?
Gary
Well-Known Member
Some where I have a nos right side bar not sure if it's a K0,K1,K2 or whatever. Never could find a lefty. I'll have to see if I can dig it out and take a pic.
Just seeing this post and seeing what Bob is paying some of you might check into the guy I have been using for boat part plating. He's about half the price of a guy I was using in Ohio and turn around is 2-3 weeks. The Ohio guy was months. This shifter I believe is made out of Zamak and was pitted. I think it took 2 weeks and was 85.00 dollars. http://www.courtesymetalpolishing.com
Just seeing this post and seeing what Bob is paying some of you might check into the guy I have been using for boat part plating. He's about half the price of a guy I was using in Ohio and turn around is 2-3 weeks. The Ohio guy was months. This shifter I believe is made out of Zamak and was pitted. I think it took 2 weeks and was 85.00 dollars. http://www.courtesymetalpolishing.com
kirrbby
Well-Known Member
Hmm... I can't say for sure on that one. I'm thinkin the K3 bar would be the best bet...and from my last post, k1-2-3 have the same or similar bends. If you're not in a hurry, I can try to pull out what I have to compare.
I do remember that the dr411 bars that I have are VERY close to the 77 bars. But you have to trim the locking tabs to fit the triple top clamp...and it's a pain.
Another thought is the dax bars that are available...I think the left has no perch on it. Not sure how the bends compare.
I do remember that the dr411 bars that I have are VERY close to the 77 bars. But you have to trim the locking tabs to fit the triple top clamp...and it's a pain.
Another thought is the dax bars that are available...I think the left has no perch on it. Not sure how the bends compare.