Does this points heel look to worn to set points?

85CTrider

85CTrider

Member
i am having a great difficulty setting the points.. i can not get a gap of .3-.4 mm it will not stay open that big..
does the heel on the points look to worn down to get it to open big enough?? new points are on order...just want to know if these points are toast..
thanks
on my 85 CT70
 

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Adam-NLV

Adam-NLV

Well-Known Member
They don't look great, its hard to tell but if they are the OEM points, it would be worn. Wait for the new points to arrive and to use as comparison, you'll have a better idea how worn they are.
 
kirrbby

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
IMO, it's not the points. You HAVE to be doing something wrong. You need to figure out how everything WORKS.

Don't just follow instructions, figure out what causes the points to open... so you'll know what you're actually trying to accomplish.

Look at the backside of your flywheel. In the center. There is a pipe lookin piece that sticks out. It is NOT round. It IS a cam...the "points cam". It has ONE spot that is high...a lobe...just like the actual head/valve cam has 2 lobes that cause the valves to open, the points cam has one lobe. The plastic lookin block on your points..."rubbing block"...RUBS against that points cam/lobe as your flywheel spins. Every time the lobe comes around and hits the "rubbing block" your points open.

When you set the flywheel...which is properly indexed on the KEYWAY KEY...to the "T". Not the F, the T mark on the flywheel, lined up with the mark on the engine case, exactly, and held there at top dead center, the points should be set to .016 inches.

After they are set, and before you move that flywheel, tighten the screw to keep your .016" setting. Then before you move that flywheel, double check your .016" measurement. Make sure it did not change or move when you retightened the screw.
Then, Spin the flywheel a couple few times counterclockwise. Then, set it on the T again. Hold it there. Then check your .016" measurement AGAIN. Make sure it didn't change. Then, before you move that flywheel, LOOK in there at your .016" gap...see that your points are OPEN... .016 inches. Keep looking in there, and move your flywheel slowly, counterclockwise, always counterclockwise, and WATCH your points CLOSE. Keep spinning the flywheel, a FULL revolution. When the flywheel comes back around to the T mark, your points rubbing block will be directly on top of the lobe of your "points cam"...on the inside of your flywheel, causing your points to be open again to your properly set .016" gap.
 
85CTrider

85CTrider

Member
HI Kirb... i know how it work, my issue is i can not get the points gap to stay set at .016.. if that heel on the points gets worn down to much the points will not open. in think the heel is worn down enough to not allow me to set the points at .016in or .35mm - i have just never seen new points and the difference in heel size which is why im asking.. how can you says its NOT the points if they could be super worn down and not allowing me to set the points properly???
 
Gary

Gary

Well-Known Member
Something is wrong somewhere. I never changed or even adjusted my 50's points from '69 to '92 when I did the top end due to mileage. If it's not an adjusting problem you will have to find out why they wore down and fix that. I have only seen one set of points on a car that had a "heel" problem and that was a set of points with a plastic block using a coil that needed a ballast and not having one thus melting the block.
 
85CTrider

85CTrider

Member
ok.. i will re examine that issue - but let me ask then - why is it that most people always say to replace the points??
when ever engine does not fire properly if points are set ( which i cant even do ) they will say to replace points and condensor,,,
that is always the go to thing for a "tune up".
once again.. i will explain the situation so you understand it clearly.. when i screw down the points set to the most open gap ( just for testing purpose ) and spin the flywheel past the f and t the points barely open and close.. i can not even get the .3-.4 gap when set to max open.. therefor i iassume the heel is worn down.... what else could it be>>????
i will pick up the new points later today and let you guys know if thats the problem..
 
6

69ST

Well-Known Member
Points are wear parts and it doesn't take much to foul them, a little bit of oil, or rust, can make all the difference. Since they're cheap, it's easier to just replace them, if suspect, than to mess around.

Can't really tell how much wear is on that rubbing block. It doesn't look good. Kinda tough to imagine enough wear to prevent the points from opening & closing, though. And you should be able to see them opening, even if it's just a few thousandths of an inch. Truthfully, the engine should have spark as long as they open & close. Performance will go to hell once the gap narrows to ~0.012".
 
kirrbby

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
Driving home from work today, I thought of a possible explanation for your troubles...

When you set the gap...
Flywheel on the key.
Flywheel set to the T.
Leave the feeler gage in the toolbox and set the point gap by eye...eyeball the gap to 3 hairs.

Then grab the feeler gage....016" or .35mm and measure your eyeballed gap while the flywheel is on the T. If it's too wide, or too small...lay the gage on the bench and adjust the gap using your screwdriver and eyeball only...then snug the screw, and grab the gage and recheck.

In other words, you don't want to have the gage in there WHILE you're adjusting your points. You only use the gage to measure your adjustment afterwards.


Maybe..?
 
85CTrider

85CTrider

Member
OK guys - here is the verdict.. i pulled the old points and put in the new points and opened them to the max ( as seen in photo of points through flywheel window ) they stay and hold open to max opening,., now i can set to 35-40mm - the old points i took out would not open as wide.;. the heel seemed fine but the black flat metal on back of them did not seem the same,, something hits or limits the points from opening as wide as the new ones.. definately something wrong with the points,, im not sure what,,,, old points in my hand...
Next.. i also have a new condensor.. should i put it in or not bother unless bike does not run perfect??
in or leave it????
 

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A

allenp42

Well-Known Member
Personally, since I'm sure you're proficient with removing the flywheel by now, I would give it a try before you replace your condenser. It doesn't take that long to test for spark, and it could remove another variable depending on your soldering skills.
 
85CTrider

85CTrider

Member
Set the points and the bike wont start... i actually set the gap twice and no luck.,.. the plug is black as a roasted burnt chicken... will that stop the bike from starting?? i tried cleaning the plug with sand paper... good or bad idea?? ( new plug is on order ) - could the condenser be the problem? should i swap that to??if the points are not set a tdc will it still start? i did not use the lightbulb way to find tdc,,, what is next on the list?? the points do open when flywheel spins around and like i say i tried setting them twice.. i held the feeler guage in there while i screwed it down... seems like a bit of a busy are in there looking through the hole in flywheel... what do i do now? wait for new plug???
ohh when kick starting it it once seemed like it wanted to start but it would not go...
 
85CTrider

85CTrider

Member
Hi again kirby.. do you think my problem is a gap that wont create a spark? can a black roasted spark plug be the issue?
how do i set these things by eye? to get a feel for the gap size - does the feeler guage need to be squeezed in between the points or it should slide through easily.. im not to sure if my gao is to big or to small.. also for tdc and me not using the lightbulb, what is a good place to start? in between the F an T or closer to the T??
 
85CTrider

85CTrider

Member
Hi kirby any update on what i should do? with spark plug and where i should have the flywheel sitting when i do points? can i set gap with wheel off? or impossible?
 
kirrbby

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
85CTrider said:
Hi again kirby.. do you think my problem is a gap that wont create a spark? can a black roasted spark plug be the issue?
how do i set these things by eye? to get a feel for the gap size - does the feeler guage need to be squeezed in between the points or it should slide through easily.. im not to sure if my gao is to big or to small.. also for tdc and me not using the lightbulb, what is a good place to start? in between the F an T or closer to the T??
Click to expand...


Yes yes. Guess at the gap. Lock it down. THEN use the gage to measure it. It the gage is too loose or too tight in there, take it out, readjust, and measure again, until the gage slips in perfectly. Do it with the flywheel ON, and set on the T.
The flywheel HAS to be on. The flywheel HAS to be set on the T.

Get a new spark plug.
 
85CTrider

85CTrider

Member
Thanks man.. im gonna do that.. one more thing.. why is it when ever you try to slide the feeler gage in ( i am new to the feeler guage i just got it and the flywheel puller so never had a flywheel off before ) when you slide it in through the flywheel hole its always on an angle and a tight fit to get in there and always feels like you cant get it to slid in flat and smooth - n therefore not giving you the correct gap........
and if the wheel is on the T does it give you space to get the feeler or your screwdriver in there>?>?
why is it so tough to get a gap close enough ti get a spark???
 
kirrbby

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
Once the gap is set correctly it should return to the correct gap...ONLY when the flywheel is on the T. If you move the flywheel off of the T, the gap/points will CLOSE.

If you remove the flywheel, the points/gap will CLOSE.
If you then put the flywheel back on, and set it to the T again, the points will AGAIN be open to the correct gap.
 
kirrbby

kirrbby

Well-Known Member
There is barely enough room to get a SMALL...narrow, feeler gage in there when the flywheel is on the T. I don't know why, but I know it's true. Just do your best.
A feeler gage is only a measuring device. How else are you going to measure a 3 hair gap?
 
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