Project gold
- Thread starter Monstar
- Start date
Everyone who becomes proficient at anything had to start somewhere. Let's be clear, I am not disparaging your skill set...I don't know what it might be. Some of the best work is done by inspired shadetree mechanics, hobbyists and devoted amateurs. That's one aspect of the gearhead game that I've always liked. I usually encourage folks to stretch their restoration talents, but candy paint work is the one exception. Unless one has a fair bit of painting experience and an honest "of course, piece of cake" attitude. You've not given that impression.
Going by the pix, your engine turned out very nicely. Thus, I have (perhaps mistakenly) the thought that you're after a well-restored machine. If you're after something other than purist perfection, you might be better off (not to mention a lot happier) to go with a "near-candy", or other conventional (solid or metallic) color. A reasonably well applied near-candy gold will look a LOT better than a botched candy. With anything but a candy color, prep matters more than sprayout. It is possible to get a very nice result with a non-candy color. IMHO, if your goal includes an original candy color, you'd be better off farming-out the paint work; it'd cost less than having to redo the paint from scratch.
Going by the pix, your engine turned out very nicely. Thus, I have (perhaps mistakenly) the thought that you're after a well-restored machine. If you're after something other than purist perfection, you might be better off (not to mention a lot happier) to go with a "near-candy", or other conventional (solid or metallic) color. A reasonably well applied near-candy gold will look a LOT better than a botched candy. With anything but a candy color, prep matters more than sprayout. It is possible to get a very nice result with a non-candy color. IMHO, if your goal includes an original candy color, you'd be better off farming-out the paint work; it'd cost less than having to redo the paint from scratch.
I shudder to think how you'd feel going through years of training in "the school of hard knocks" needed to learn the actual processes.My head hurts after reading all that. Gloss powdercoat for the win!
FYI, powdercoating on sheetmetal is a very bad idea, unless you're after a "one and done" bike project, with minimal bodywork possible. For someone looking for an inexpensive way to repaint one of these bikes and end up with a good result, best to put the effort & cost into prep work...glass bead blasting, dent/scratch repair and as much block sanding as it takes. Maybe splurge a little on epoxy primer, to seal the metal. Then, use rattlecan paint. Go for a non-candy color and the sprayout won't require any special talent beyond the ability to use a rattlecan properly. If the prep is right, the results can be surprisingly good. You'd also be able to do future touch-ups and spot repairs, if needed. The one sacrifice will be durability. Catalyzed urethane is tough and highly chemical resistant. Consider the fact that the original lacquer was more fragile than rattle can paint...and how long it could last, with care.
Well thats what i thought in the beginning but I'm just gonna do my best. I thought about giving my frame parts to my buddy who is a painter but i'd rather do the whole thing myself. Painting is my least favorite thing including painting walls in a house.
The calls are yours, alone, to make. FWIW, I still farm-out cylinder boring and chrome plating...because they're wildly impractical, especially at this late date. Having shop experience, I do prep parts for chrome plating which reduces the amount of labor for the plater. Perhaps this approach could work for you with the body & paint work...you do everything except the sprayout.
airblazer
Active Member
I spent some time reading about the cons of powder coating on a website I believe you’re well-associated with
. I’ve been searching for a shop or a friend who has glass bead blasting capability. I intend to repaint the bike as you suggested. I assume a couple coats of clear after color would be in my best interests? I have a neighbor who does paintless dent repair who I’m hoping can pull the typical dent out of the right side of the frame just forward of the seat...Monstar I apologize for hijacking your thread with my own questions! It seems you and I are somewhat on the same step of our projects. Thanks! - Ryan
Doesn't look like you've hijacked the thread. You both have shared concerns.
Media blasting cabinets are found in many shops. Most metro areas have a number of places that do automotive body/paint...or outright restoration work, bike shops, too. Powdercoating, plating, and welding shops usually have them, too.
As for clearcoating, that depends on the paint system. With catalyzed urethane, one can apply a surreal amount of material. The only immediately obvious disadvantage is the cost. Good quality paint is pricey. Of course, overly thick paint is a liability, regardless of type. However, with most airdry paints, there's the added problem of yellowing when too much has been applied. That's easier to avoid than it may sound. With basecoat/clearcoat (a.k.a."2-stage") or basecoat/midcoat.clearcoat, with candies (a.k.a. "3-stage") systems, the bulk of the total paint thickness IS the clearcoat. It protects the color beneath it and gives you material to work with. IOW, enough to de-nib, or colorsand & polish, without affecting the color. When it comes to candy colors, that's a HUGE advantage over the original 2-stage (base/color) lacquer.
If you're using airdry formula paint, in rattlecans, I suggest doing a practice piece before shooting the frame, HL bucket, or other part that cannot be easily sanded/stripped in the event of a bad result. Airdry paints also tend to be moisture-sensitive. Clearcoat, especially, can develop the old, dreaded, "blush" if contaminated by moisture. Ambient air temperature affects not only drying time, but flashover/flowout as well, so pick your day accordingly. Duplicolor makes one of the better rattlecan clearcoats and they switched-over to a very nice fan spray type nozzle, that makes the painter's task fairly easy. Start with a light "scratch coat", followed by 3-4 progressively wetter coats, depending upon how heavily you apply the paint. The one constant, the final coat (a.k.a. the "flow coat") should be the heaviest. Then give the fresh paint at least a couple of weeks to harden. After that, it can be de-nibbed, or colorsanded and polished quite easily and to good effect...by hand.
IMHO, a paintless dent removal pro should be able to work wonders on a CT70 frame. Just understand, ahead of time, that some dents/road rash...along with rust pitting...will inevitably require filler. Every process has it's workable range. Just as thick body filler cannot compensate for inadequate prep, metal massaging (a.k.a. "paintless dent removal") cannot erase every single surface imperfection. Some dents/bends are just too big for the process. That said, at the very least, it should get the metal straight enough for scratch filler, in a reasonable thickness.
Media blasting cabinets are found in many shops. Most metro areas have a number of places that do automotive body/paint...or outright restoration work, bike shops, too. Powdercoating, plating, and welding shops usually have them, too.
As for clearcoating, that depends on the paint system. With catalyzed urethane, one can apply a surreal amount of material. The only immediately obvious disadvantage is the cost. Good quality paint is pricey. Of course, overly thick paint is a liability, regardless of type. However, with most airdry paints, there's the added problem of yellowing when too much has been applied. That's easier to avoid than it may sound. With basecoat/clearcoat (a.k.a."2-stage") or basecoat/midcoat.clearcoat, with candies (a.k.a. "3-stage") systems, the bulk of the total paint thickness IS the clearcoat. It protects the color beneath it and gives you material to work with. IOW, enough to de-nib, or colorsand & polish, without affecting the color. When it comes to candy colors, that's a HUGE advantage over the original 2-stage (base/color) lacquer.
If you're using airdry formula paint, in rattlecans, I suggest doing a practice piece before shooting the frame, HL bucket, or other part that cannot be easily sanded/stripped in the event of a bad result. Airdry paints also tend to be moisture-sensitive. Clearcoat, especially, can develop the old, dreaded, "blush" if contaminated by moisture. Ambient air temperature affects not only drying time, but flashover/flowout as well, so pick your day accordingly. Duplicolor makes one of the better rattlecan clearcoats and they switched-over to a very nice fan spray type nozzle, that makes the painter's task fairly easy. Start with a light "scratch coat", followed by 3-4 progressively wetter coats, depending upon how heavily you apply the paint. The one constant, the final coat (a.k.a. the "flow coat") should be the heaviest. Then give the fresh paint at least a couple of weeks to harden. After that, it can be de-nibbed, or colorsanded and polished quite easily and to good effect...by hand.
IMHO, a paintless dent removal pro should be able to work wonders on a CT70 frame. Just understand, ahead of time, that some dents/road rash...along with rust pitting...will inevitably require filler. Every process has it's workable range. Just as thick body filler cannot compensate for inadequate prep, metal massaging (a.k.a. "paintless dent removal") cannot erase every single surface imperfection. Some dents/bends are just too big for the process. That said, at the very least, it should get the metal straight enough for scratch filler, in a reasonable thickness.
ctbale
Member
If your talking about the rear shocks, even when they were new, there too soft for anyone over maybe 140 lbs. I have been away from playing with these bikes for a few years. I bet there are after market springs now that might fit on org shock? I have four ct70s, only one I have retained the orig shocks. Thats my 4 speed. I look at it more then I ride it. The one I actually ride (pretty dam hard) has 1979 CT90 shocks on it. Bullet proof!!
wanrep
Active Member
I used one of these kits from CHP on the last one I did.
https://www.chpmotorsports.com/shop...ate-version-for-late-kos-through-1981-models/
It was O.K. Mostly 6mm, a few 8mm. None of the bigger bolts like engine mounting. The shock nuts weren't oem size for a K0.
Not convinced it was worth the 80 bucks.
https://www.chpmotorsports.com/shop...ate-version-for-late-kos-through-1981-models/
It was O.K. Mostly 6mm, a few 8mm. None of the bigger bolts like engine mounting. The shock nuts weren't oem size for a K0.
Not convinced it was worth the 80 bucks.
kirrbby
Well-Known Member
The CHP kits are expensive because they recreated the vintage markings on the bolt heads. There is a pretty complete list of bolt sizes for the CT...HK0 I think it is. Which is VERY close for K0 K1 2 etc. I can find it for you. Then you can order them up from anywhere you want. Some stuff is specialty tho, and may not be available from anywhere.
And a lot of the 8mm nuts have a 14mm hex od...I think that's a Honda thing.
And a lot of the 8mm nuts have a 14mm hex od...I think that's a Honda thing.
wanrep
Active Member
That's true. Pretty much all 12mm head on the newer stuff.
You can tell when someone's replaced a bolt/nut with a "hardware store" item. It'll have a 13mm head. I hate that.
Fasteners have gotten expensive. Realizing an exact reproduction of something, even something simple like a bolt, is far more more difficult than it was for the OEM to create. They weren't copying anything and thus set a de facto standard...that is damned near impossible to reach. The costs associated with recreating the original fasteners, down to the last detail, are substantial. That's why they're not 100% exact, it would have been cost-prohibitive, unless they could be sold in five, or six, digit quantities.
Yes, those 14mm M8 hex nuts are kinda weird. I've always wondered why they didn't just use M10. There are a number of proprietary fasteners on these bikes...axles, engine mounts, brake arm nuts, etc that are unlikely to ever be reproduced, due to the economics involved. If after purist, concours, perfection, restored OEM is the only way to get it. IMO, still nice to see another option that will make life a little easier for a number of owners...particularly those who are starting with incomplete bikes.
FWIW, for my own custom machinery I've long-since switched to stainless. The cost difference, at this late date, isn't much...more like "you pays your money and takes your pick". Restored, repopped, generic hardware store, custom, etc whatever you consider "best"...
That's true. Pretty much all 12mm head on the newer stuff.
You can tell when someone's replaced a bolt/nut with a "hardware store" item. It'll have a 13mm head. I hate that.
Yes, those 14mm M8 hex nuts are kinda weird. I've always wondered why they didn't just use M10. There are a number of proprietary fasteners on these bikes...axles, engine mounts, brake arm nuts, etc that are unlikely to ever be reproduced, due to the economics involved. If after purist, concours, perfection, restored OEM is the only way to get it. IMO, still nice to see another option that will make life a little easier for a number of owners...particularly those who are starting with incomplete bikes.
FWIW, for my own custom machinery I've long-since switched to stainless. The cost difference, at this late date, isn't much...more like "you pays your money and takes your pick". Restored, repopped, generic hardware store, custom, etc whatever you consider "best"...
If you mean the four threaded mounts on the muffler, itself, and you want a flawless exhaust system, there's a new muffler in your future. The mounts were never sold as service parts, as they were welded parts of the muffler. They'd be easy enough to replicate, if you have access to a lathe, or machine shop. Getting them welded in the proper orientations is a bit tricky. The bigger issue is the chrome, which won't survive the extreme heat. If you can live with a bit of cheeziness in the finishing, silver paint plus the heatshield should cover most of the surgical scars and pancake makeup.
Thats what i'm talking about.. I know places that sell bungs but not metric or that exact size. What would be a good after market pipe similar to the original? I see CHP sells them but being cheap, i don't feel like spending 200...